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Old 08-02-2013, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,345,774 times
Reputation: 9270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Anyway, I feel much closer to socialism than to capitalism, always have and always will. If I did not totally boycott elections, I would probably vote for the communist party
I just don't believe in money as a goal, motivation or whatever. When money becomes the motivation, values are bound to go downhill.
I think you take "money" too literally. I believe most humans inherently want "more" - more food, more pleasure, more power, more trophies, etc. That is why we love sports. That is why musicians like to play in front of crowds instead of the mirror. That is why painters want other people to look at their work. A wine maker makes wine for himself and the people that buy it.

Money is a means to get "more." Workers are trading labor for wages so they can first satisfy their basic needs. And they are willing to do more labor for more wages so they can get "more." Everyone wants different things.

Socialism suppresses this inherent behavior. It trades achievement for some illusion of equality. And it breaks down over time because people are not satisfied with a government controlled allocation of what makes them happy. The temporary happiness of workers goes away, and instability rises over time. That is why every country that has a socialist economy is run by a dictator or near dictator. These governments suppress civil rights such as freedom of press and freedom of expression because they don't want the people to know that others have a better life. They don't want people to communicated broadly - which can drive increased power by citizens.

 
Old 08-02-2013, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,312 posts, read 20,890,962 times
Reputation: 9350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenika View Post
Seriously.... Why are Americans so Anti-Socialised? Reading on this forum I am speechless.

They hate government restriction, hate labor law protecting workers, and so pro corporates. Are people brainwashed or whats going on?
I love freedom and support only minimal government restrictions. Government regulation is the antithesis of freedom.

I'm not pro "corporates. "

Yes, people are brainwashed to think that everything needs to be provided or regulated by government.
 
Old 08-02-2013, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,312 posts, read 20,890,962 times
Reputation: 9350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Anyway, I feel much closer to socialism than to capitalism, always have and always will. If I did not totally boycott elections, I would probably vote for the communist party
I just don't believe in money as a goal, motivation or whatever. When money becomes the motivation, values are bound to go downhill.
You would not like communism either. It is totally based on greed and money. Do you really think the communist bosses in Russia or North Korea were not greedy? Only a fool would think communism doesn't have money as a goal. Communism rewards greed. Every government has winners and losers and communism is no different.

Greed is a human trait and has nothing to do with economic or political affiliation.
 
Old 08-02-2013, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,900,883 times
Reputation: 9401
Charity should be voluntary - not something forced on the population by the state against their will.
 
Old 08-02-2013, 09:14 AM
 
1,962 posts, read 1,832,865 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Charity should be voluntary - not something forced on the population by the state against their will.
Should taxes be voluntary?

Why or why not?
 
Old 08-02-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,345,774 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by k.smith904 View Post
Should taxes be voluntary?

Why or why not?
Of course not. Unless the people don't want a government.
 
Old 08-02-2013, 09:29 AM
 
1,962 posts, read 1,832,865 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Of course not. Unless the people don't want a government.

So youre saying taxes serve a common interest for a government that facilitates the needs of people that those people couldn't manage individually?
 
Old 08-02-2013, 09:33 AM
 
808 posts, read 666,602 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by k.smith904 View Post
So youre saying taxes serve a common interest for a government that facilitates the needs of people that those people couldn't manage individually?
NO. taxes are a common interest for the government to facilitate the need of the government workers - above everything else.
 
Old 08-02-2013, 09:37 AM
 
1,962 posts, read 1,832,865 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by vox populi View Post
NO. taxes are a common interest for the government to facilitate the need of the government workers - above everything else.
And what should be the sole responsibility of those workers?
 
Old 08-02-2013, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,345,774 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by k.smith904 View Post
So youre saying taxes serve a common interest for a government that facilitates the needs of people that those people couldn't manage individually?
The vast majority of people want to be governed in some way. They recognize that an orderly society benefits us all. So they (we) want a government that reflects our values and has the resources required to protect our values.

I think it is obvious there is no agreement on what an ideal government is. But we also recognize ideal is not possible so we accept all kinds of things. And if we have a democratic style of government we can influence our government.

The problem with your statement is that it doesn't define what the needs are that people can't manage individually. Your question about taxes was a response to a post about voluntary charity. And since this thread is about socialism - what are you trying to say?
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