COVID 19 stats - ALLEGHENY COUNTY and beyond (Pittsburgh, Harrisburg: to live in, costs)

[zip95]

Originally Posted by Knepper3

Look there is more to the debate than spreading COVID. Yes there are stupid reasons but there are valid reasons. Part of the issue is the WAY things have been enacted and the way business closures have been handled. There is zero recourse and the manner in which business are chosen often do not make sense. Obviously people need food but there are many other functions that do not seem essential and allowed while others are not. There are also many people that can work and in a safe manner to avoid spread yet there is no way to make a case.

Completely correct.

I can't figure out if people know that the shutdowns have devastated millions and don't care, or if since it's only an inconvenience for them they think it's a simple inconvenience for everyone else.

The number of ma-pa shops that are never coming back is sickening, people's life's work now gone forever with the stroke of a pen. In the coming months when the free money stops, what happens when the jobs don't return... and make no mistake, most won't. What happens a few months from now when the state, city, counties and boroughs realize their budget shortfalls are massive and they start cutting jobs and programs. What happens when universities realize enrollment is way down and state funding has dried up.

I think lots of people aren't fully comprehending what happened here, because a lot of the worst effects of the shutdown are in front of us, so of course there are valid reasons for the protest. Don't let the media spin it as a bunch of dunces who only care about guns and are too stupid to understand the world.

You know what's really ironic... C19 deaths are still fewer than flu deaths.

[gg]

Originally Posted by gmagoo

Dumber things than demanding the right to spread Covid 19?

That is much too simple of an answer. Taking precautions in our region is enough at this stage. Time to get back to work in a clean environment with a mask on. Don’t touch your face. I don’t think restaurants should open though. That we aren’t ready for.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by zip95

You know what's really ironic... C19 deaths are still fewer than flu deaths.

That's the whole idea!

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by gmagoo

Dumber things than demanding the right to spread Covid 19?

Who’s suggesting to do that?

[zip95]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

That's the whole idea!

The whole idea is to "flatten the curve" which means to spread the deaths out over time so as to not overwhelm the health system with everyone dying at once. If the idea really was to "save every life" then we should turn off the economy every flu season, ban smoking and drinking, make driving illegal, and jail producers of sugary and fatty foods. But we don't do that because civilization accepts a certain amount of risk in order to prosper.

[Independentthinking83]

Originally Posted by zip95

Completely correct.

I can't figure out if people know that the shutdowns have devastated millions and don't care, or if since it's only an inconvenience for them they think it's a simple inconvenience for everyone else.

The number of ma-pa shops that are never coming back is sickening, people's life's work now gone forever with the stroke of a pen. In the coming months when the free money stops, what happens when the jobs don't return... and make no mistake, most won't. What happens a few months from now when the state, city, counties and boroughs realize their budget shortfalls are massive and they start cutting jobs and programs. What happens when universities realize enrollment is way down and state funding has dried up.

I think lots of people aren't fully comprehending what happened here, because a lot of the worst effects of the shutdown are in front of us, so of course there are valid reasons for the protest. Don't let the media spin it as a bunch of dunces who only care about guns and are too stupid to understand the world.

You know what's really ironic... C19 deaths are still fewer than flu deaths.

Couldn’t agree more. The economic damage is going to be massive and catastrophic. It is it going to literally blow up the higher education system and colleges. I think most will struggle, many will downsize and a lot may close. People are going to to be shocked. And locally I think some may be pushed beyond the brink of being solvent. CMU is 40 percent international population. What is going to happen to them with travel bans in place?

Locally people may get their wish with consolidation and merging. I don’t thing the local governments and school districts can survive this. Pittsburgh’s budget deficit may end up worse than it was in 2004, when the city entered act 47 and cut a half dozen fire stations and over 1000 city jobs.

[coolviper777]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

From a public health perspective, yes, it is that hard. Enforcement of hand washing, mask wearing, etc. would be damn near impossible. In general, we have laws that protect us from the bad behavior of others by discouraging that bad behavior through penalty. This situation is similar in the sense that the bad behavior of others (going out without a mask, going out while sick) will put others in danger. The challenge here is there's no way to post-facto hold someone responsible for getting others sick.

It's telling that we are even talking about holding someone criminally (or with a fine) if you somehow get someone else sick. Unless you deliberately and with malice try to infect someone, you can't hold people responsible for accidents. We are walking, talking bag of water, cells, bacteria and viruses. We will never, ever be germ free. So, expecting perfection is unrealistic. What would be more realistic is helped people build their immune systems.

[Independentthinking83]

Originally Posted by zip95

The whole idea is to "flatten the curve" which means to spread the deaths out over time so as to not overwhelm the health system with everyone dying at once. If the idea really was to "save every life" then we should turn off the economy every flu season, ban smoking and drinking, make driving illegal, and jail producers of sugary and fatty foods. But we don't do that because civilization accepts a certain amount of risk in order to prosper.

Amen!!! especially civilization accepting a certain amount of risk in order to prosper.

[Independentthinking83]

Originally Posted by zip95

Completely correct.

I can't figure out if people know that the shutdowns have devastated millions and don't care, or if since it's only an inconvenience for them they think it's a simple inconvenience for everyone else.

The number of ma-pa shops that are never coming back is sickening, people's life's work now gone forever with the stroke of a pen. In the coming months when the free money stops, what happens when the jobs don't return... and make no mistake, most won't. What happens a few months from now when the state, city, counties and boroughs realize their budget shortfalls are massive and they start cutting jobs and programs. What happens when universities realize enrollment is way down and state funding has dried up.

I think lots of people aren't fully comprehending what happened here, because a lot of the worst effects of the shutdown are in front of us, so of course there are valid reasons for the protest. Don't let the media spin it as a bunch of dunces who only care about guns and are too stupid to understand the world.

You know what's really ironic... C19 deaths are still fewer than flu deaths.

Originally Posted by zip95

The whole idea is to "flatten the curve" which means to spread the deaths out over time so as to not overwhelm the health system with everyone dying at once. If the idea really was to "save every life" then we should turn off the economy every flu season, ban smoking and drinking, make driving illegal, and jail producers of sugary and fatty foods. But we don't do that because civilization accepts a certain amount of risk in order to prosper.

I love your posts so much. I would rep you 1 million times if I could. Your last comment about accepting a certain amount of risk by civilization to prosper shows the utter hypocrisy across this country. However for the sake of argument I will keep it local.

People accept a certain amount of risk everyday to live in Pittsburgh, which is one of the most polluted cities in the country. The East end especially is really bad and a hot spot on a pollution heat map. People pay 400K for row houses in Lawrenceville and 100 year old McMansions in East end neighborhoods. If people truly cared about saving lives Pittsburgh should shut down its economy totally ever summer due to the code orange days. We are one of the national leaders in that category. A public health danger to everyone.

Quite frankly going by this virus metric of shutting things down a city like Pittsburgh should cease to exist. The government should come in here and force everybody out to save their life, no matter they have a good job and can afford a hipster neighborhood. This is all due to the dangerous air pollution that could cause cancer in thousands of local people. They could overwhelm the system and make health care costs skyrocket.

Yet none of this has happened because people that live here accept a certain amount of risk in order to prosper. Even if it is breathing in some of the most polluted air in the country. And putting yourself at greater risks everyday to develop cancer.

[gg]

Originally Posted by zip95

The whole idea is to "flatten the curve" which means to spread the deaths out over time so as to not overwhelm the health system with everyone dying at once. If the idea really was to "save every life" then we should turn off the economy every flu season, ban smoking and drinking, make driving illegal, and jail producers of sugary and fatty foods. But we don't do that because civilization accepts a certain amount of risk in order to prosper.

Partly true, but if you overwhelm hospitals then more lives will be lost because people won't get the care they need to stay alive and beat the virus.

"save every life"? Come on, this style of arguing is getting old. Limiting death is logical. No one is coming close to saving every life no matter what we do. Essential work has to go on to sustain life. It is interesting what industries/jobs are essential. Teachers aren't and countless other industries. Food supply is as well as healthcare, but push comes to shove, food and water are at the very top along with transport to get food to people. Everything else is expendable including healthcare just to be able to continue living. Most all won't need healthcare during this.