Diploma withheld b/c valedictorian used "hell" in her speech (punish, games)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My point still stands -- why did she leave something out for the review when she intended to use it in her speech?
No, actually your point does not still stand because I said she may have been caught up in the moment. Being caught up in the moment means spontaneous, not planned. You know, not under review.
I'm pretty sure -- I remember being in high school myself -- seems like it was just yesterday and it's highly doubtful she was just some naive thing that had no clue that when she meant to say "heck" that "hell" would come out instead.
My class tried some things with the homecoming floats that got censored, even some things they thought would be too subtle for the stupid adults to pick up on.
"ASR: Adult Supervision Recommended
Under 13 with Supervision, 13 and Older
This rating signifies that the content of this item should not be viewed by minors alone, but accompanied with adult supervision (parent, guardian, teacher, etc.). The item may contain some content that is not appropriate for readers of less than 13 years of age and is recommended to be read by an adult first to be sure it is appropriate for the minor. The item may contain very mild slang curse words (dang, darn, etc.) or mild derogatory words (idiot, jerk, etc.). This does not include phonetic spellings of harsher swear words. Horror and violence may exist at an extremely mild level, but does not exceed moderate levels. There are absolutely no references to sex (other than gender), drugs (illegal), alcohol, graphic violence, harsh or sexually derived cursing, harsh derogatory names, or any combinations thereof."
Bold type mine for emphasis. If the guideline for written speech is to use "dang" or "darn" rather than "damn", I suspect "Hell if I know" would be better avoided, too.
Quote:
Most prepositional phrases are not used to make the point of a sentence or serve any important purpose at all, especially when they're such commonly used slang as this is. That's like asking a man who said "I shot him in the parking lot",
"What do you mean.... 'in the parking lot'?"
I have absolutely no idea what you mean. What prepositional phrase are you talking about?
Quote:
Ah, well fortunately, what you "believe" is not enough to justify withholding a high school diploma from a valedictorian student.
She was allowed to graduate. She did not get her diploma. She made her statement. The school is making its statement.
Quote:
How do you figure it was an attempt at humor? This sounds more like typical small talk than a joke. That you don't like the word "hell" does not change the context of the sentence she used it in.
She did it because she thought it would be cute.
What she did was a lame reprise of a scene from a movie. I guess she was assuming everyone in her audience had seen it.
That movie is rated PG-13. If her audience included children under 13 years old, she should have considered that perhaps the parents of those children would prefer not to have to deal with the fallout from her use of the word. She used poor judgment. Perhaps those parents are using her as an example of how not to behave in public. Great valedictorian, huh?
"Hell" doesn't bother me. But I do not feel compelled to use it in front of people who would find it offensive.
Quote:
Not her fault a bunch of petty "adults" only heard/committed to memory that one "bad word" in her speech. And she didn't announce disrespect of any kind; that's a total non sequitur.
She certainly was disrespectful. To her teachers, the administration of the school, and to the people in her audience.
Thanks. Her version was a pale imitation. It appears she was trying to use just enough of the idea to be able to say "hell." That's really all she wanted to do.
The problem is that her, by your definition, defying the authorities has zero effect on her earning her diploma
and it should have never even been part of the situation. They cannot withhold her diploma for this.
You can defy your boss and get fired buy they cannot withhold your paycheck for what you've already worked.
She was allowed to graduate. She just has not been able to pick up her actual diploma. She has decide whether she wants it. All she has to do is apologize for her poor judgment.
No, actually your point does not still stand because I said she may have been caught up in the moment. Being caught up in the moment means spontaneous, not planned. You know, not under review.
No, she has admitted it was intentional. She and her friends talked about it just before she went on stage to speak.
Why did she have to submit her speech for approval? Once she did, why did she deviate from it?
Could be standard procedure, having nothing to do with her personally. And we've already given alternate explanations for her "deviating" from the script. For me, it's not hard to see how someone could accidentally say "hell" when they're supposed to say "heck". Maybe that's what happened, maybe not. But you don't punish people because you think they did something on purpose, especially this kinda stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Her use of the word was inappropriate for her audience. I suspect that there were graduates whose younger siblings attended...
This is a site with guidelines for authors.
"ASR: Adult Supervision Recommended Under 13 with Supervision, 13 and Older
The bolded says it all. How many kids under 13 do you really think were there alone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Bold type mine for emphasis. If the guideline for written speech is to use "dang" or "darn" rather than "damn", I suspect "Hell if I know" would be better avoided, too.
Maybe, maybe not. But thanks to the huge deal being made of this, a lot more people are seeing and hearing the word "hell" than they would have if the principal hadn't have overstepped his bounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
I have absolutely no idea what you mean. What prepositional phrase are you talking about?
Though it's missing the word "in", it's implied. "In the hell" would be a prepositional phrase. I suppose we could argue over that. But no matter what you call it, it's clear that asking "What's the point in using it?" is silly. Such phrases are not there to make a point, and the idea that she meant to say the word for some other purpose is unfounded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
She did it because she thought it would be cute.
Unfounded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
She certainly was disrespectful. To her teachers, the administration of the school, and to the people in her audience.
I disagree. I think that for something to be disrespectful, the context must be considered. The words "the hell" in her speech were not meant to be emphasized. Too much attention is being drawn to them, and I really don't see why.
First of all, is "hell" really a bad word? Second, who memorizes a speech and stands at a podium and regurgitates it word for word without a single deviation? This girl did nothing wrong. The school is making a mountain out of a molehill and publicly embarrassing themselves.
First of all, is "hell" really a bad word? Second, who memorizes a speech and stands at a podium and regurgitates it word for word without a single deviation? This girl did nothing wrong. The school is making a mountain out of a molehill and publicly embarrassing themselves.
"Hell" is not profanity, nor is "damn," when used in their true meanings as the opposites of "heaven" and "bless"--in my opinion. Those words are in the Bible, and if I can say them in church with a plain face then there's nothing wrong with them. But to use them carelessly is to "curse," "swear," or "utter an oath," and all three of those words have serious connotations. The superstition about swearing is old and far-reaching. So while I don't give much of a damn what that girl said , I do see suzy_q's point.
It's odd that a school with a mascot of a "red devil" would find use of the word, "hell" so offensive that they would withhold their top student's diploma for using it in her speech. Is the school going to apologize to Native Americans everywhere for using a known racial slur as a school mascot?
Quote:
"As president of the Navajo Nation, I wish to note that the use of the term 'Red Devils' lends or conveys the immediate opinion of assertion of offensive racial commentary," Begaye wrote in a letter to the Nebo School District. "The term 'Red Devils' elicits immediate negative connotations that may be offensive to some individuals, particularly Native Americans, including members of the Navajo Nation."
-http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91679&page=1 (This quote was taken from a different story about the use of "Red Devil" as mascot but shows the Navajo Nations view on this term. )
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
, I do see suzy_q's point.