Diploma withheld b/c valedictorian used "hell" in her speech (weigh, engaged)
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I grew up in the era of "sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me". In two generations, we 'evolved' into being so sensitive to words, some we can't even say. Some words send people to therapy and even suicide. Our sensitivities have not made us a stronger breed but one very frail. She should have been free to give her speech any way she desired. After all, she is the academic leader of her school, an esteemed representative of her generation. Who cares what the Principal's thoughts are. His job with this class is over. She, and the rest of the graduating class are blazing their own trails now. The older generation needs to learn when to step aside.
To all who are so engraged by a high school girl using "hell" in her speech, what's going to happen when your kids get to middle/high school and have to read books like To Kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice and Men, etc. that have swearing in them? Or when a movie is shown in class that has a swear word or two in it?
You bet she can and she is exactly the person I want in the booth. She's also old enough to serve her country in the armed forces and work a full time job.
Sounds like you want "Yes" women in the booth. I want women who are strong, smart, independent and who studied hard enough to earn being the valedictorian of her class. I don't give a rats ass that she "broke her word" to an uptight system that has deemed hell to be a bad word.
And yes, I AM a hippie Boomer and it was my generation that made sure she'd have a right to BE in that voting booth.
I want women who are strong, smart, independent, and who studied hard enough to become valedictorians. I also want them to have common sense and good judgment.
To all who are so engraged by a high school girl using "hell" in her speech, what's going to happen when your kids get to middle/high school and have to read books like To Kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice and Men, etc. that have swearing in them? Or when a movie is shown in class that has a swear word or two in it?
Or go to church and hear the pastor speak of Hell.
It seems you are the one making assumptions. I am going by her own words, as quoted in her comment to NBC. If she had to ask her classmates' opinions, she knew it would not make the principal happy.
How is saying "It could be this... or that" making an assumption? You claimed her classmates "spurred her on". She didn't say or imply that at all.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
But it might have not gone over well with the parents of those children, who expected a "G" rated speech and got more than they bargained for.
The rating system is not the ultimate measure of right and wrong. You have to consider how something may or may not affect people, including children. You say that a child might've heard the word "hell" in her speech and decided they wanted to start using it. I say that any child who can pick that word out (because in that particular phrase, the word doesn't stand out among the others; it's almost hidden, even) must be ready to learn the difference between acceptable and unacceptable use of a word. The importance of context. Kids who are too young to understand the importance of context are also too young to decide to imitate words that blend in with all the rest.
I'm ordinarily a pretty strong advocate of censorship for the kids' sake, but there has to be some identifiable threat.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
She just thought she could get away with it with no consequences.
Or, she thought no one would throw a hissy fit about it. You insist on making assumptions about her intent; I don't know why.
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Originally Posted by Annie53
Or go to church and hear the pastor speak of Hell.
Good point. Not only do the little kids hear the word 'hell'; they're given mental images of what it's like to go there!
You're talking to someone whose high school mascot was the Blue Devil. I think devils make fine mascots. As I understand it, the controversy about the mascot had more to do with "red" than "devil."
"Red Devils" was a derogatory term used by white, European settlers to describe Native Americans. It is a term that is deeply rooted in racism. The controversy about the mascot has everything to do with the words "red" and "devil" put together to form the term, "red devils".
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"As president of the Navajo Nation, I wish to note that the use of the term 'Red Devils' lends or conveys the immediate opinion of assertion of offensive racial commentary. "The term 'Red Devils' elicits immediate negative connotations that may be offensive to some individuals, particularly Native Americans, including members of the Navajo Nation."
So again, does the school with the racist mascot hold the moral high ground in denying a hardworking student her diploma over her decision to use a word in her speech that a few people *might* find offensive.
"Red Devils" was a derogatory term used by white, European settlers to describe Native Americans. It is a term that is deeply rooted in racism. The controversy about the mascot has everything to do with the words "red" and "devil" put together to form the term, "red devils".
So again, does the school with the racist mascot hold the moral high ground in denying a hardworking student her diploma over her decision to use a word in her speech that a few people *might* find offensive.
What does the mascot have to do with the graduation speech? Was it the current school principal? Do we know what he personally thinks about the mascot? Who chose the mascot? If the community felt it was racist, why was it not changed?
We're covering the same ground here. We do not know the school's side of the story.
I strongly suspect that there are factors influencing the principal's decision that are unrelated to the word "hell" and more to the deception that preceded its use.
Please note that the student was not denied graduation, just told she could have her paper diploma when she apologized. Big difference.
How is saying "It could be this... or that" making an assumption? You claimed her classmates "spurred her on". She didn't say or imply that at all.
I am basing my opinion on what the student said. What are you basing yours on?
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The rating system is not the ultimate measure of right and wrong. You have to consider how something may or may not affect people, including children. You say that a child might've heard the word "hell" in her speech and decided they wanted to start using it. I say that any child who can pick that word out (because in that particular phrase, the word doesn't stand out among the others; it's almost hidden, even) must be ready to learn the difference between acceptable and unacceptable use of a word. The importance of context. Kids who are too young to understand the importance of context are also too young to decide to imitate words that blend in with all the rest.
I'm ordinarily a pretty strong advocate of censorship for the kids' sake, but there has to be some identifiable threat.
The bold part of your statement is exactly what this student did not do.
Again, what you feel is correct for your child may not be the same as what another parent wants for his child. You do not get to make decisions for other parents.
If you think the kids in that audience did not hear what she said, you have very little experience with children.
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Or, she thought no one would throw a hissy fit about it. You insist on making assumptions about her intent; I don't know why.
I am basing my assumptions on the fact that she said she would do one thing and then did another. Seems reasonable to me.
To all who are so engraged by a high school girl using "hell" in her speech, what's going to happen when your kids get to middle/high school and have to read books like To Kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice and Men, etc. that have swearing in them? Or when a movie is shown in class that has a swear word or two in it?
[sarcasm]
The simple answer of course is just to ban such books. We must protect the children at all costs!!
[/sarcasm]
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I think devils make fine mascots. As I understand it, the controversy about the mascot had more to do with "red" than "devil."