Is there any hope of the 3C's ever splitting off into separate states (Columbus: credit, organic)

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by goofy328

It reminds me of Northern Virginia, which at one time was simply a suburban backwoods for DC. It had to evolve and grow into its own destination and took advantage of what it had, the most obvious being the lack of height limits that DC had, and the luxury to build in unique and creative ways. The baggage of DCs inner city problems was not an issue, and they had the opportunity to create their own space. Now many prefer Northern Virginia to DC.

I'm so glad you brought up Northern Virginia. That area is a perfect example of what can happen when you're an area that it's in close proximity to large government operations. Obviously the growth in NoVa is on a completely different scale than what's happened in Central Ohio, but the parallels are certainly there.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

I'm so glad you brought up Northern Virginia. That area is a perfect example of what can happen when you're an area that it's in close proximity to large government operations. Obviously the growth in NoVa is on a completely different scale than what's happened in Central Ohio, but the parallels are certainly there.

...yes, such parallels to either Norfolk or NYC might be of some interest, but, then again, neither of these are really relevant to the situation existing between Ohio's "3-C's."

Only the blind still refuse to see. When one finally comprehends how both Cleveland and Cincinnati have, through tax-dollars, propped up Columbus, they will also understand. No one's pooh-poohing the awesome presence of OSU. (we're all proud of it) or the urban-developments within Cbus itself.

But, then again, let's all look deeper than the "surface mirage" that's artfully being pawned upon us. Inwardly, there's another story that Cbus' fanatical homers still deny and attempt to spin to their own favor. But haven't we in both Cleveland and Cincinnati been here before?

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by ksu sucks

There's absolutely nothing illogical about their last sentence. To a certain (some would argue significant) extent Columbus' growth depends on a reallocation of wealth from other parts of the state to the Columbus metro via taxation.

Unless you're willing to admit that Columbus' growth has nothing to do with the fact that it's home to the state government and a massive public state university. In which case...well, "you can't really argue logically against an illogical position".

So for the first 150 years when Cleveland and Cincinnati were unquestionably the dominant cities in the state, what was Columbus at fault for then? And if there's a reallocation of wealth, it's from former residents of those cities moving to Columbus. Maybe you should be yelling at them.

Cincinnati and Cleveland had overwhelming advantages over Columbus given that they were much larger cities much earlier. I've said it before, but they really only have themselves to blame for how things went. Look at Austin. State capital with a big university, and obviously doing well. But so is everywhere else in Texas. Having one successful city in a state with a handful of inherent advantages does not excuse your cities from all the mistakes they clearly made, and it certainly doesn't preclude the fact they can be successful again with proper leadership and a residency that does not spend so much of its time blaming everyone else for their own problems. Takes some responsibility for god's sake.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by goofy328

Interesting. I've also heard that argument made by New Yorkers about NYC. I'm not saying it is a cop out but to follow that logic would also imply that if any of the cities in Ohio experienced another period of growth, that wealth would follow to Columbus as well. Just feels like a straw man, causation type of argument.

Of course it is. It also ignores that Cincy/Cleveland are still the larger economies of the state, and that Cincy at least, has managed to start growing again. How is any of this possible given all the rampant excuse-making?

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

Of course really. You're apparently arguing that being the seat of state government and hosting one of the largest public universities in the country is not an advantage for Columbus, particularly when the funding for these institutions is coming from all over the state and not just Central Ohio. Sorry, but you're being blinded by Columbus rosy red glasses if you can't see how having OSU and state government is not a huge catalyst for growth and advantage for the city.

Actually I have never argued that those factors weren't advantages. Just the opposite. But they alone don't mean that other cities in the state can't be successful. That is a lie, though apparently one that is held in widespread high regard in the other 2-Cs. The most ironic thing about this is that people are constantly bashing Columbus as the inferior city, and yet at the same time, treat it as a juggernaut sucking in all the state's resources. You can't have it both ways, so you had better pick one story.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

I'm so glad you brought up Northern Virginia. That area is a perfect example of what can happen when you're an area that it's in close proximity to large government operations. Obviously the growth in NoVa is on a completely different scale than what's happened in Central Ohio, but the parallels are certainly there.

So there are no other successful, growing cities in Virginia because of DC? I mean, that's really what you're saying is true about Ohio because of a MUCH smaller state government advantage in Columbus.

[Townes Van Zandt]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

So for the first 150 years when Cleveland and Cincinnati were unquestionably the dominant cities in the state, what was Columbus at fault for then?

No one in this thread has blamed Columbus for all of Cleveland and Cincinnati's problems.

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

And if there's a reallocation of wealth, it's from former residents of those cities moving to Columbus. Maybe you should be yelling at them.

I can't tell if you simply don't understand the point we're trying to make or if you're just being hard to deal with. Whenever metro Columbus benefits from investments funded by statewide taxes there is a direct reallocation of wealth from taxpayers in other parts of the state to the capital. This isn't an opinion or a hunch or even a suspicion. This is an undeniable fact.

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Cincinnati and Cleveland had overwhelming advantages over Columbus given that they were much larger cities much earlier. I've said it before, but they really only have themselves to blame for how things went.

No one in this thread has blamed Columbus for all of Cleveland and Cincinnati's problems.

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Having one successful city in a state with a handful of inherent advantages does not excuse your cities from all the mistakes they clearly made

"Mistakes" which were as much a result of historical and geographic coincidence as anything else. Had settlers decided to start a river town at the confluence of the Scioto and Olentangy instead of on the Ohio then Columbus would have experienced a lot of the same problems as Cincinnati. If Columbus was situated on the Great Lakes then perhaps it might have become an industrial boom town like Cleveland.

But they didn't choose Columbus as the site of a new river city. And Columbus doesn't have access to the Great Lakes. So while Cleveland and Cincinnati boomed Columbus sat by idly with that uniquely Midwestern blandness which can only be described as a brooding silence occasionally broken by the sound a stray heifer farting into the wind.

So yes, Columbus can give itself a nice pat on the back for "avoiding" the mistakes made by other Ohio cities. What a brilliant stroke of genius it was to turn down the Rockefellers and send them packing to Cleveland. That is how it happened, right?

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Actually I have never argued that those factors weren't advantages. Just the opposite. But they alone don't mean that other cities in the state can't be successful. That is a lie, though apparently one that is held in widespread high regard in the other 2-Cs. The most ironic thing about this is that people are constantly bashing Columbus as the inferior city, and yet at the same time, treat it as a juggernaut sucking in all the state's resources. You can't have it both ways, so you had better pick one story.

I don't deal in strawman arguments, so please pay more attention next time. I never said that CIN and CLE can't be successful, nor did I ever say that COL is inferior. All I've been saying is that CLE does not benefit from COL's presence, or benefit from being in the same state as CIN and COL, and relatedly, that CLE would be better off as the seat of its own state consisting of other Northeast Ohio counties. Do you dispute any of that? And if so, what is your basis?

[1watertiger]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I will simply never understand this kind of attitude. The GDP differences between the 3 are not that significant (less than $10 billion between the 3) and the metro size differences are also relatively small, and getting smaller. It's one thing to not like Columbus, that's fine. But it's just sticking your head in the sand to act like it will forever exist in the shadow of the other 2. You suggest population growth doesn't matter, but where do you think that GDP really comes from? More people tends to mean more companies, more economic activity, more jobs, etc. 22,000 people into the metro every single year is going to have an impact over time, like it or not. What is wrong with cheering for success in your home state, no matter where it comes from?

That's why this thread is so dumb. The state is stronger together.

Where are you getting your figures? 18 county NE Ohio vs central Ohio counties? Or is this city proper vs city proper?

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

Where are you getting your figures? 18 county NE Ohio vs central Ohio counties? Or is this city proper vs city proper?

It's by metro area: http://bea.gov/itable/iTable.cfm?Req...12&7093=levels

I was slightly off. It's about an $11 billion difference between the 3.