Is there any hope of the 3C's ever splitting off into separate states (Columbus: employment, transfer)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by columbus finest

So thats why clevelands dying?

Cleveland's had issues, but it's not dying and I would say it's probably just about poised for a return. How long that takes, I don't know, but I don't think you can compare the trajectory of today with what it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

Columbus was a planned city, not one that grew organically. Its sole existence has little to do with natural geography that has driven human settlement for millennia (like Cincinnati and Cleveland) and everything to do with artificial geography ("So, uh, we've got these borders on a map, let's pick a random place that's sort of in the geographic center.").

I'm not sure why this would be an advantage, though, especially at the time it was laid out when things like water access really mattered. In fact, I would call that a huge detriment for probably the next 100+ years.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by motorman

If I were you, I wouldn't spend much more time debating this point with any Cbus homers who will never confront reality. Otherwise, you'll find yourself locked into their game rooms confronting legions of their straw men, on playing fields where every time you score, they just move the goal posts backwards, resulting in your loss of score.

Even the Cincinnati Enquirer (11/18/13) ran a cover story entitled:"Columbus big winner with JobsOhio credits," written by Dan Horn. These were the first three paragraphs of this article: "Companies that do business near Ohio's capital get far more tax breaks for hiring new workers than companies in Southwest Ohio--or anywhere else in the state... Known as job-creation tax credits, the state tax breaks can be worth thousands or even millions of dollars to companies that receive them in exchange for expanding their workforce... An Enquirer analysis found that Franklin County, home to Columbus, gets more tax-credit projects, more promised jobs, more potential payroll and more tax-credit value than any other county in Ohio."

Personally, long ago I sadly learned the price of lingering too long in such Cbus "Smoke N' Mirrors" labyrinths. Therefore I feel justified in imploring you to set your own reasonable limits--otherwise, only frustration and futility will be your final reward.

I remember you posting something about tax money and job credits that you tried very hard to say was proving one thing when it really didn't. No surprise you keep doing it, as you are probably the biggest promoter of the idea that your city can't hack it without more state money. Unintentionally, but yeah, that's really the bottom line that people are saying here.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I remember you posting something about tax money and job credits that you tried very hard to say was proving one thing when it really didn't. No surprise you keep doing it, as you are probably the biggest promoter of the idea that your city can't hack it without more state money. Unintentionally, but yeah, that's really the bottom line that people are saying here.

Sorry to burst into this "diagnosis" of yours, but it's just another ploy to cover up hard facts about Cbus by creating one more straw man you can knock down. The "bottom line" is actually your own inability to confront reality, no matter who presents it. (At least that's what I hear people saying here.)

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by motorman

Even the Cincinnati Enquirer (11/18/13) ran a cover story entitled:"Columbus big winner with JobsOhio credits," written by Dan Horn. These were the first three paragraphs of this article: "Companies that do business near Ohio's capital get far more tax breaks for hiring new workers than companies in Southwest Ohio--or anywhere else in the state... Known as job-creation tax credits, the state tax breaks can be worth thousands or even millions of dollars to companies that receive them in exchange for expanding their workforce... An Enquirer analysis found that Franklin County, home to Columbus, gets more tax-credit projects, more promised jobs, more potential payroll and more tax-credit value than any other county in Ohio."

Funny, the DDN published a story this week stating SW Ohio was the biggest jobs creator since 2011, all with tax breaks via JobsOhio (unfortunately behind a paywall online) so I guess it's all who you believe.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by Natural510

Funny, the DDN published a story this week stating SW Ohio was the biggest jobs creator since 2011, all with tax breaks via JobsOhio (unfortunately behind a paywall online) so I guess it's all who you believe.

Well, I glad to hear that, probably due to GE's most recent thrust into SW Ohio combined with Kasich's most lucrative tax-incentive yet for the company to move to "Ohio," but not SW Ohio. (GE has yet to make their final decision, but I think we already know what could happen. Remember how Kasich attempted to bribe Sears with $400-million to relocate to Columbus rather than Cincinnati, their original choice? Deja vu.)

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

So by even, I assume you mean Lima getting the same return as Cleveland? Or are we being ultra-selective in what should be "fair"?



You used to, just as I did. This attitude is pretty widespread on this forum from current and former residents.

And again, it's also cute how you guys gloss over the fact that it's taken 200 years for Columbus to reach the other 2 with all these supposed advantages. I get it, no one wants to take responsibility. It's easier to place blame.

BTW, there is nothing more childish than promoting the state equivalent of taking your ball and going home to play by yourself because you don't like to share, which is essentially what breaking the state up is.

Columbus' growth has exploded in the past few decades and it's not a coincidence that the size of governments (local, state, and Federal) have as well.

In regards to taking our ball and going home, look, Greater Cleveland/Northeast Ohio is a region of up to 4 million people depending on what definition you use. Even in using conservative estimates, considering just the five-county metropolitan area, we're larger than 14 states. We're a region that is economically sustainable and culturally unique from the rest of the state. There's absolutely no reason why the idea of self-governance for these counties, even if it truly is a pipe-dream, should seem like that much of stretch. It's not about not wanting to share; it's about bringing government closer to the people and keeping more of the tax dollars in this region.

I'll take this a step further: Cleveland is not special in this regard, I think the state structure of the United States is arbitrary and archaic and that all of the largest metropolitan regions in North America would be better off with more self-governing autonomy. I just don't think these places benefit from being held hostage by Sacramento, Austin, Tallahassee, Harrisburg, Jefferson City, etc.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

So I ask, are you really arguing for fairness or are you arguing that your city get the most instead? What about all the other cities in the state besides the 3-Cs? I'm sure they would benefit even more, so what about them? What about historically, when the other 2 were much larger than Columbus? Who was getting the money?

"Fairness" is a red herring, because I see this as being about more than just money. I just think Northeast Ohio would be better off governing itself.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I'm not sure why this would be an advantage, though, especially at the time it was laid out when things like water access really mattered. In fact, I would call that a huge detriment for probably the next 100+ years.

Maybe, but as long as it has the rest of the state propping it up, it won't matter. Columbus is as close to recession-proof as you're going to find in the Midwest, outside of Chicago and maybe Indianapolis.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by motorman

Well, I glad to hear that, probably due to GE's most recent thrust into SW Ohio combined with Kasich's most lucrative tax-incentive yet for the company to move to "Ohio," but not SW Ohio. (GE has yet to make their final decision, but I think we already know what could happen. Remember how Kasich attempted to bribe Sears with $400-million to relocate to Columbus rather than Cincinnati, their original choice? Deja vu.)

So it's totally okay when Cincinnati gets tax dollars for its own business piggybank, but the outrage flies when it's the other way around.

Kasich was trying to get Sears to Ohio, period. The company looked at sites in all 3-Cs. Sears was never going to move from Chicago, and the whole thing was a ploy by them to get bigger/extended tax breaks.