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But even college educated Black men are NOT a monolithic group! Within that group there exist differences in talent, family connections and resources, social networks, etc all of which have serious influences on how an individual can succeed.
There's studies on stuff like this too, except you have no interest in reading this stuff because it doesn't go along with your agenda to group all Blacks together and declare us one big robot . The borg. We are the Black borg with one mind. You will be assimilated. We have no individuality or personal preference. We have no capability beyond the collective.
OK my posts are boring to you so you don't read them. If so ignore them rather than peddling an inaccurate interpretation.
I described the high wash out rate of blacks in investment banks and law firms. Now how does this suggest a monolithic black community when few people in general, much less blacks, enter into those jobs. Note the focus on ENTER.
To get there they needed to have graduated from Ivy League schools because recruiting into those institutions is very specific. The people who get that far have to be socially sophisticated, and if they didn't know the power of networking they wouldn't even have landed an interview much less get a job.
And yet many leave, or are forced out at the mid management level, not reaching the upper echelons. ASIANS are doing better, and indeed even Hispanics. So what is "wrong" with blacks? Those who reach that level are mainly US born, and most with families which are at a MINIMUM 2-3 generations of being in the US UPPER middle class? So clearly not of recent immigrant origin.
Many of the Asians in those slots are the kids of immigrants.
OK my posts are boring to you so you don't read them. If so ignore them rather than peddling an inaccurate interpretation.
I described the high wash out rate of blacks in investment banks and law firms. Now how does this suggest a monolithic black community when few people in general, much less blacks, enter into those jobs. Note the focus on ENTER.
To get there they needed to have graduated from Ivy League schools because recruiting into those institutions is very specific. The people who get that far have to be socially sophisticated, and if they didn't know the power of networking they wouldn't even have landed an interview much less get a job.
And yet many leave, or are forced out at the mid management level, not reaching the upper echelons. ASIANS are doing better, and indeed even Hispanics. So what is "wrong" with blacks? Those who reach that level are mainly US born, and most with families which are at a MINIMUM 2-3 generations of being in the US UPPER middle class? So clearly not of recent immigrant origin.
Many of the Asians in those slots are the kids of immigrants.
I mentioned before - there is a recent-ish Black Enterprise issue that details exactly this situation.
Granted that they want to justify their own existence in this much-touted "post-racial" era, but they are also right. Both that they should definitely exist and that the blacks in business thing is an issue.
Why is that "white" ? Could not disagree more, and you should consider just how harmful such ideas are to young people.
Oh, I forgot. Much better to be "real" and dump my garbage and litter on the street, to dress inappropriately - with gym clothing my "dressed up" look ... and so on.
Funny how most of our friends are "highly educated blacks" and none "code switch." Some of them speak French, is that what you meant ?
I think your "many" is an exaggeration. Perhaps not everyone grew up around that, nor should we have. It's a cultural rather than a racial marker. Stop trying to insist that it's racial.
You know why its considered "white", because we know full well what whiteness is associated with. and yes unfortunately it is harmful to young people.
and you know what code switching is lol. Ebonics may not accepted as standard English but it is not inferior by any means. and yes MANY people do code switch and many view Ebonics as an inferior way of speaking, white and black. Its not exclusive to the United States though, many dialects and ways of speech around the world are viewed as INFERIOR by certain people. It is a cultural marker around racial lines. By addressing this issue such as these we will get to the root of many racial issues we have in this country.
I don't know anyone who wears gym clothing as thier "dressed up look". Maybe some idiots you've seen strolling in Harlem.
I did not say all Black Americans work for the city welfare system. I said disproportionately the city's Black middle class works in civil service. .
You said MOST. Now you say disproportionate. Had you said that I wouldn't have argued with you. Because even then you would have to acknowledge that much of the black middle class is also in the private sector, and not merely earning $10/hour either. Just that more of them are civil servants than whites, Hispanics or Asians.
And yes the disproportionate concentration of blacks in the public service is a large part of the reason why black unemployment is now so high. There has been a net loss of 700,000 public sector jobs since 2009, while at the same time millions of jobs in the private sector have been created.
So a discussion of why blacks concentrated in the public sector when the private sector has always been the driver of most jobs becomes worthy. Because blacks are now in deep trouble as a result of this. And this isn't likely to change given the current budget cutting environment that we are in.
You said MOST. Now you say disproportionate. Had you said that I wouldn't have argued with you. Because even then you would have to acknowledge that much of the black middle class is also in the private sector, and not merely earning $10/hour either. Just that more of them are civil servants than whites, Hispanics or Asians.
And yes the disproportionate concentration of blacks in the public service is a large part of the reason why black unemployment is now so high. There has been a net loss of 700,000 public sector jobs since 2009, while at the same time millions of jobs in the private sector have been created.
So a discussion of why blacks concentrated in the public sector when the private sector has always been the driver of most jobs becomes worthy. Because blacks are now in deep trouble as a result of this. And this isn't likely to change given the current budget cutting environment that we are in.
I did not mean to imply that there were NO black middle class in the private sector, so if that was your understanding of what I was saying from now on I will use disproportionate.
As for why Blacks became disproportionately concentrated in the public sector, once upon a time it was easy to get a decent job in the public sector even with no degree (not true anymore, now they require bachelors degrees for all but the most rock bottom public sector jobs). So I think lots of people applied to jobs that they thought at the time were good deals for them.
Certain public sector jobs, like certain private sector jobs have had technology reduce the need for them. Many token booths were closed when the metrocard vending machines had been out for awhile. Getting rid of tokens themselves saved the MTA money on labor (because one can keep refilling a metrocard long term, while a token has to be constantly recirculated). Paying for metrocards electronically reduces MTA need to handle cash, so that reduces the number of employees handling money.
One can order new copies of driver's license or update one's address on driver's licenses online. I'm sure on a long term basis that reduces the number of DMV employees. Old people these days can apply for social security online. 311 routes most city complaints, so that allowed the city to concentrate the majority of it's incoming calls for issues into one calling center (which I am sure Bloomberg used to save money and reduce headcount).
I repeatedly said my life is not the defining experience for all.
You guys are taking it personally I disagree that there's evidence of any unity between AAs and West Indians. Many black men who make it big don't even marry AAs (or any Black) you see them married to a white or hispanic woman.
Obviously that's not all Black men, but that's there, isn't it, and in significant enough numbers.
There's absolutely no proof that AAs nationally or even in NYC feel a special bond with Caribbean people and the main people claiming this are certain West Indians. Yes, of course there are AAs married to Caribbean people or who have Caribbean friends, but there are AAs married to or friends with Jewish people, WASPs, Hispanic people, Italian people, middle eastern people, Asians, etc.
Nobody is saying all blacks do this or that. Indeed when the KKK Dragon David Duke ran to be Governor of Louisiana who won TWO PER CENT of the black vote!
What we are talking about is the average probability, because that is all you can go on. Some will defy the odds, and some will be miserable failures, but its likely that most will be slightly better off, or slightly worse off that number. And this based on various subsets of blacks, whether broken down by ethnicity, educational levels, or socio economic status.
In addition no one is saying that there is huge unity between immigrant generation West Indians and African Americans. There are clear cultural distinctions between these groups as indeed they are WITHIN those groups. The stereotypical Bajan hates Jamaicans even more than AAs do, and yet many don't accept that nonsense/
Beyond the immigrant generation no one can define who is, or who isn't Caribbean that will be agreeable to all. There is no either or, and many claim BOTH identities, based on context.
So on behalf of the ENTIRE English speaking Caribbean community I offer apologies for what ever various Caribbean people might have done to you. Obviously we West Indians must be horrible people because I have none of the animosity towards AAs (many of them are my clients) that you have towards us. Just got off the phone from one of them too and he thinks that "blacks" are just "blacks". He used to be an investment banker and now owns his own company.
Out of a country 300 million, how many Blacks mix extensively with Mexicans?
?
We are talking about NY. Outside of NY the conversation of AA and Afro Caribbean dynamics is irrelevant.
How many Mexicans and blacks in NYC ever encounter each other given the demographics of the Mexican population in this city. Even you will admit that we don't often meet the highly educated Mexican in NYC, even though they do exist, but they just aren't that numerous. Texas and California, different story.
The result is that the Mexican will tend to encounter mainly the black under class, so understandably will not think too kindly of them.
Its clear that West Indians have done great injury to you and so on behalf of the estimated one million of us who live in the Metro NY area I apologize. We are truly a horrible group of people to have hurt you so deeply.
And no, I do not hate West Indians. I'm indifferent to them..
So why are you so appalled that the realities of race in the USA means that Caribbean and American blacks usually live in the same communities, go to the same schools, and often work in similar jobs, and so will form bonds with each other. This when we get over the stupid stereotypes that occur when two different groups have initial encounters.
Most 2nd generation Caribbean blacks marry AAs and the same is true for US born Africans. I challenge you to produce other groups where the same can be said.
As for why Blacks became disproportionately concentrated in the public sector, once upon a time it was easy to get a decent job in the public sector even with no degree (not true anymore, now they require bachelors degrees for all but the most rock bottom public sector jobs). So I think lots of people applied to jobs that they thought at the time were good deals for them.
Certain public sector jobs, like certain private sector jobs have had technology reduce the need for them. Many token booths were closed when the metrocard vending machines had been out for awhile. Getting rid of tokens themselves saved the MTA money on labor (because one can keep refilling a metrocard long term, while a token has to be constantly recirculated). Paying for metrocards electronically reduces MTA need to handle cash, so that reduces the number of employees handling money.
One can order new copies of driver's license or update one's address on driver's licenses online. I'm sure on a long term basis that reduces the number of DMV employees. Old people these days can apply for social security online. 311 routes most city complaints, so that allowed the city to concentrate the majority of it's incoming calls for issues into one calling center (which I am sure Bloomberg used to save money and reduce headcount).
Technology is reducing the need for people who perform robotic tasks in both the public and private sectors. How many of us go to the post office, or to the DMV any more? Even food stamps is on a refillable debit cards. But these are low skilled people who face displacement. Secretaries no longer exist, at least not in terms of just answering the phone and typing. To succeed they must be Administrative support, in other words possess basic management skills and initiative, again blocking out poorly educated females who used to have that avenue for upward mobility.
Blacks gravitated to the public sector around WWII when laws preventing racial exclusion began to be implemented. So it was easier for blacks to achieve upward mobility than in the private sector which remained quite hostile to black professionals as late as the 1980s.
I can tell you stories about what it was like then. And this wasn't some deeply historic period like the 60s where only old people can truly tell you what it was like. Now some credit the Cosby Show for showing Americans that normal upper middle class blacks did exist, and so reducing the negative assumptions that they had about blacks. I do remember the claims that this was pure fantasy even though it represented normality for most upper middle class blacks. You will note that neither of them were fully in Corporate America.
I told the white investment banker about the results of this relatively recent hostility to blacks. The result being having to fight "racial exclusion", even when there isn't an intent to be racist. Of course few people today are consciously racist, but that doesn't mean that they are truly color blind either.
So if there are major issues with the middle class around the nation, why even imply that African Americans have special issues?
The 2011 article, btw, is somewhat old and certain jurisdictions in the US have recovered economically. According to more recent articles that have been posted on this forum, unemployment levels have dropped for people of all races.
So why are you pushing old articles and data and declaring this permanent status for the "African American" middle class?
Is it to say those people are doing worse than you (you're thinking about returning to Guyana) so you can feel better about yourself?
Are you sure the economy has improved in the past three years besides wall Wallstreet on steroids? How's your college debt working out for ya? As for Guyana I won't move over their until 2054. Also I can choose India, Portugal, Ireland, Great Britain, Brazil and West Africa and all other parts of the world that is in my blood. America is going down the toilet and you know it. The black American middle class is declining. I'm gonna post a 2 year old article. If this article is irrelevant because it's out dated than maybe a week old article out dated as decade old article.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 08-19-2014 at 06:46 PM..
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