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Indeed my very point is that there are differences, hence my focus on college educated blacks, to extend the discussion beyond the normal inner city black rant, with all the implications that this condition describes the state of Black America.
Now one can argue about whether blacks go to the same quality schools as whites (they dont), or pursue the same degrees (possibly they dont). But if unemployment rates for college educated black man are the same as they are for high school educated white men, and various studies have shown that income levels are similar as well, then I think we are talking about more than social pathologies. College is too expensive and reguires to much effort for some one to graduate from these institutions, and yet have the same attitudes as a high school drop out.
But even college educated Black men are NOT a monolithic group! Within that group there exist differences in talent, family connections and resources, social networks, etc all of which have serious influences on how an individual can succeed.
There's studies on stuff like this too, except you have no interest in reading this stuff because it doesn't go along with your agenda to group all Blacks together and declare us one big robot . The borg. We are the Black borg with one mind. You will be assimilated. We have no individuality or personal preference. We have no capability beyond the collective.
This thread is moving like a winding road, still the same road but winding around and around. I used to challenge NyWriterDude on his claims of being Black at all. I still have doubts. All Black Americans work for the City Welfare system if they have a job at all, according to him. I haven't kept up with all the remarks he's made about Blacks from other parts of the world. But to his credit he is fair with all of the young population, he encourages them all to not pursue higher education and get a low wage job in retail.
DAS, this is bull**** and you know it.
I did not say all Black Americans work for the city welfare system. I said disproportionately the city's Black middle class works in civil service. There are stats to prove it.
As for higher education, I caution people about higher education yes. Because low achieving older working class people like you, full of self hatred and frustration encourage everyone to go out and get multiple degrees, because this is magically supposed to help them have a great future. Not necessarily according to CaribNY, who posts info on the high unemployment rates among Black men.
Other factors like individual talent, social connections, having the proper internships, and other things have to be there in order to get a good job after graduation. In high paying jobs you basically have to be better than all your peers.
If everyone from the Bronx got a bachelors degree, would that huge population all land employment? No. Employers have filtering mechanism to get rid of the crap and allow only the best candidates arise to the top. You must be one of those low wage people working in retail if you can't comprehend that no employer hires on the basis of a degree alone.
Same situation with gentrification and black poverty. The inconsistency and constant side switching was just too much for me.
And using our personal life CAN be informative, but I think where NYwriterdude falls off is that he uses his life as if it is the defining experience for all.
I repeatedly said my life is not the defining experience for all.
You guys are taking it personally I disagree that there's evidence of any unity between AAs and West Indians. Many black men who make it big don't even marry AAs (or any Black) you see them married to a white or hispanic woman.
Obviously that's not all Black men, but that's there, isn't it, and in significant enough numbers.
There's absolutely no proof that AAs nationally or even in NYC feel a special bond with Caribbean people and the main people claiming this are certain West Indians. Yes, of course there are AAs married to Caribbean people or who have Caribbean friends, but there are AAs married to or friends with Jewish people, WASPs, Hispanic people, Italian people, middle eastern people, Asians, etc.
No I really do think you are a White trust funder forced to live frugally on a budget if you don't work. You are probably trying to make it as a writer and may be making a little something. But basically you are home most of the time, arguing with people on City Data NYC forum. But I like that part because I love the forum debates. It keeps me from falling asleep on my non retail job. Which I do at home most days and I don't have set hours.
Now one can argue about whether blacks go to the same quality schools as whites (they dont), or pursue the same degrees (possibly they dont). But if unemployment rates for college educated black man are the same as they are for high school educated white men, and various studies have shown that income levels are similar as well, then I think we are talking about more than social pathologies. College is too expensive and reguires to much effort for some one to graduate from these institutions, and yet have the same attitudes as a high school drop out.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I will make a concession to you here. DAS and some others accused me of wanting Blacks to remain in low wage retail jobs. I said no such thing. I think for poor people if one wants to use education for social mobility, you'd need to get into a top institution and/or be particularly talented. Otherwise you'll be a college graduate working as a minimum wage security guard (I know a guy like this).
So I have been critical of those insisting that all poor people just automatically get a college degree, because there's no point in saddling them with tens of thousands dollars worth of debt just to get a minimum wage job (and the debt can actually get them denied jobs or housing). Education alone will not end inner city poverty (though it could help an individual inner city kid if he is exceptionally talented and goes to Harvard).
I understand what you meant about Blacks having to work harder or be better than their competitors to get anywhere.
So for the average inner city person who is not a particularly talented person or who doesn't have good grades (regardless of race) I am going to say it's much more realistic for them to get a regular job (retail or whatever) out of high school. Because there's a massive debt situation out that strangely the lives of people who never realistically had much of a chance of getting high end employment.
No I really do think you are a White trust funder forced to live frugally on a budget if you don't work. You are probably trying to make it as a writer and may be making a little something. But basically you are home most of the time, arguing with people on City Data NYC forum. But I like that part because I love the forum debates. It keeps me from falling asleep on my non retail job. Which I do at home most days and I don't have set hours.
LOL or should I say HAHAHAHA
You have a clock in my home to monitor my activities? I post periodically whenever, but you don't know my daily activities or anything like that.
As for me being a white trust funder, it really shows what you think of Blacks being the giant Black borg if you have to make believe I'm a white guy.
You have a clock in my home to monitor my activities? I post periodically whenever, but you don't know my daily activities or anything like that.
As for me being a white trust funder, it really shows what you think of Blacks being the giant Black borg if you have to make believe I'm a white guy.
Do I monitor your activities or know of them? Of course not. I think you are White because of the self hatred that you show in your writing. Even though you accuse me of self hatred you will never see me post anything remotely negative against Black people, or any group of people for that matter. I was pointing out to CaribNY that you post negative remarks concerning all Black people, because I think and I may be wrong that you offended him with your statements concerning Caribbean Blacks and African Blacks, and that you not only make those statements exclusively to those groups of Black people.
You also make quite a few generalizations. So you post like you are White. If you are Black your posts are surprising because a Black person wouldn't make these types of generalizations, especially the types that are dead wrong.
I state all of this even though for the most part I enjoy your post, and you start many interesting threads.
But even college educated Black men are NOT a monolithic group! Within that group there exist differences in talent, family connections and resources, social networks, etc all of which have serious influences on how an individual can succeed.
There's studies on stuff like this too, except you have no interest in reading this stuff because it doesn't go along with your agenda to group all Blacks together and declare us one big robot . The borg. We are the Black borg with one mind. You will be assimilated. We have no individuality or personal preference. We have no capability beyond the collective.
Yes, college educated black men are not a monolithic group. Black folks are not one monolithic group. It is well known that people from poor inner city areas do not have the connections that their suburban peers do. All blacks don't act or talk the same, dress the same, or do the same things in life, yes I think people understand. Oh yeah and the reason why a significant amount of blacks have civil service jobs is because many blacks in the past knew they would not be hired if a job didn't advertise as an Equal Opportunity Employer. So that is why.
As for assimilation, many highly educated blacks also "code switch" to Ebonics when they are around black people and use standard around white people. (Ebonics is still viewed as inferior in the eyes of whites, and black people have accepted this too).
From what I see many Ivy-League educated blacks usually embrace a white bourgeois standard of culture and etiquette. Why should other blacks do the same? Well don't get mad at those who don't.
Yes, college educated black men are not a monolithic group. Black folks are not one monolithic group. It is well known that people from poor inner city areas do not have the connections that their suburban peers do. All blacks don't act or talk the same, dress the same, or do the same things in life, yes I think people understand.
As for assimilation, many highly educated blacks also "code switch" to Ebonics when they are around black people and use standard around white people. (Ebonics is still viewed as inferior in the eyes of whites, and black people have accepted this too).
From what I see many Ivy-League educated blacks usually embrace a white bourgeois standard of culture and etiquette. Why should other blacks do the same? Well don't get mad at those who don't.
These are excellent points and usually how it works. Many Blacks that are raised in wealthy predominately White suburbs or White areas of the city like East 72nd St. Will not switch to Ebonics but will use the slang terms of the wealthy Whites.
Whatever field you work in, or whatever groups you socialize with, you have to adapt and take on the culture and etiquette of the group to some extent hopefully without losing your core self. If you allow yourself to lose your core self you will have many regrets later on.
As for assimilation, many highly educated blacks also "code switch" to Ebonics when they are around black people and use standard around white people. (Ebonics is still viewed as inferior in the eyes of whites, and black people have accepted this too).
From what I see many Ivy-League educated blacks usually embrace a white bourgeois standard of culture and etiquette. Why should other blacks do the same? Well don't get mad at those who don't.
Why is that "white" ? Could not disagree more, and you should consider just how harmful such ideas are to young people.
Oh, I forgot. Much better to be "real" and dump my garbage and litter on the street, to dress inappropriately - with gym clothing my "dressed up" look ... and so on.
Funny how most of our friends are "highly educated blacks" and none "code switch." Some of them speak French, is that what you meant ?
I think your "many" is an exaggeration. Perhaps not everyone grew up around that, nor should we have. It's a cultural rather than a racial marker. Stop trying to insist that it's racial.
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