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This thread is moving like a winding road, still the same road but winding around and around. I used to challenge NyWriterDude on his claims of being Black at all. I still have doubts. All Black Americans work for the City Welfare system if they have a job at all, according to him. I haven't kept up with all the remarks he's made about Blacks from other parts of the world. But to his credit he is fair with all of the young population, he encourages them all to not pursue higher education and get a low wage job in retail.
I can't!! Lmao..
No, he says a significant amount of black middle class is employed in the public sector.
No, he says a significant amount of black middle class is employed in the public sector.
On many post he specifically mentions Black Americans working for the Welfare System. As of late he has been rephrasing that to working for the Public Sector. Glad I could make you laugh.
One sad problem for African American men along with Latino/Hispanic yes, is contact with the criminal justice system.
Far to many AA and Hispanic/Latino young men or even youths are arrested and processed. Even if only minor offences they still then have a rap sheet and must tick that box when asked. With so many persons applying for one open position these days a criminal record is just one more millstone around a minority male's neck.
Mind you NYS has strict laws about how a past conviction is supposed to affect hiring, but many employers still prefer someone without such a history.
Sadly by the time these minority youths realize the impact of a CR the damage is done. You are seeing some movement on this front such as the efforts by the new Brooklyn DA regarding arrests for say small amounts of pot, but that does not go far enough. It also does nothing to address the scores if not hundreds of minority youth and young men who already have criminal records for "minor offenses'.
1. Many Caribbean immigrants (both black and Indian) have been hurt by this recession, and arent benefitting from the recovery to the same degree that others are. Hit by foreclosures and by the reduction of opportunities in admin support occupations many are in dire financial straits. The implosion of employment in the public sector...700,000 jobs in this sector lost under Obama, even as millions of private sector jobs have been added becomes an additional factor.
2. Europeans were NOT chased out by other Guyanese. There were never that many in Guyana to begin with, and they left, beginning in the late 19th C, for the same reasons that other Guyanese have. Better opportunities elsewhere, and lack of faith in Guyana's prospects. In addition these Europeans (apart from the Portuguese) never considered themselves to be "Guyanese" in way. they were British people sentenced to live in the colonies.
3. Every Guyanese knows that we are a Caribbean people (by heritage, culture, political systems) living in a nation located in South America. We have MORE in common with Trinidad, Barbados or Jamaica than we do with Ecuador or Peru. I can assure you that those feelings are deeply mutual as few South Americans spend any time worrying about the three Guyanas, or think of us as anything other than odd creatures stuck in South America.
Nah they don't, these countries worry about themselves. Brazil worries about becoming a Great Power while Argentina is worrying about defaulting on its debt which can send the global economy into a tailspin again.
As for Europeans being chased out of Guyana? THis did happened in the 1960s. Their was a family called the Abraham family. They were of Portuguese descent and very politically active. The whole entire family was killed in a sabotaged botched murder via a house fire planted by the opposition. After this event the remaining Portuguese with purchasing power left. This event was a huge blow for Guyana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
And so now you compare the USA with an impoverished 3rd world nation. Jamaica doesnt project itself as a role model of democracy. The USA does.
Good Point
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
You just said something negative about African Americans right there. When you single out a group of people and paint all of them with a broad stroke, this is when you get the drama that's been going on this board.
You've supplied no proof that African American middle class has declined relative to other groups.
Part of the problem is the middle class is ill defined. What is a middle class African American even? Are you talking doctors, dentists, lawyers, nurses, academics? It's hard to believe these people would be declining relative to professionals of other races.
Then in terms of lay offs and job losses, Microsoft is laying off tens of thousands. IBM has laid off tens of thousands, sold it's server business to Lenovo, and is in the process of selling off it's microelectronics divison. Certain other big companies have laid off large numbers of people and I doubt the majority of their employees, including the ones laid off were Black. These people lost their benefits and may have lasting damage to their careers (and may lose their homes). In the financial sector in New York, the people working in operations, administrative positions, etc have all been replaced by TEMPS (less money, no benefits or bonuses, etc).
So you should ask yourself why do you see wealth destruction for African Americans when it it's an issue affecting people of all races.
That's where the racism comes in.
And why does it even matter that X percent of Chinese do this, allegedly Z percent of African Americans do that, etc? Spouting these stats like this has become a big part of the political culture and it does lead to racial anomyousity and hatred.
For the record when all is said and done, it's basically irrelevant to me how African Americans are doing. At the beginning of the month, I personally have to rent the rent check. I personally have to buy my clothes and pay my bills. The African American ethnic group does not support me financially.
My contention on this thread is that people here present Blacks as mindless robots, not even human. There's this one giant statistical Black with no individual intelligence, will, or thoughts. This one giant Black robot is a criminal, is poor, is dumb. There are Blacks who perpetuate this by claiming all Blacks are united and all have the same thoughts on everything.
But back to your claims about Hispanics, yes there are Hispanics who are moving up socioeconomically. No doubt (the same can be said for any race). There are also Hispanics on welfare or those illegal immigrants making less than the minimum wage. There's massive poverty among immigrant communities, and even the children and grandchildren of some immigrants find it difficult to truly move up in their careers. You yourself spend a lot of time hating on transplants (whites with good educations) because you didn't attend a top school and you don't come from their wealth (I clearly am not speaking about poor or poorly educated whites). So while they can have a grand life in NYC, you cannot and this has been the source of many a bitter post from you. So rather than worrying about African Americans you might try and fix your own life and go to a worthwhile grad school.
How is saying the African American middle class is declining a negative comment? How does this insult anyone? I do not need to provide a link especially since we have discussed on this thread the decline of the black middle class and the middle class in general in NYC and across the nation.
How is saying the African American middle class is declining a negative comment? How does this insult anyone? I do not need to provide a link especially since we have discussed on this thread the decline of the black middle class and the middle class in general in NYC and across the nation.
So if there are major issues with the middle class around the nation, why even imply that African Americans have special issues?
The 2011 article, btw, is somewhat old and certain jurisdictions in the US have recovered economically. According to more recent articles that have been posted on this forum, unemployment levels have dropped for people of all races.
So why are you pushing old articles and data and declaring this permanent status for the "African American" middle class?
Is it to say those people are doing worse than you (you're thinking about returning to Guyana) so you can feel better about yourself?
Not really as he posts based on his emotion and not facts. I remember last year he was claiming that the high concentration of blacks in the public sector was a bad thing, then as he was in the corporate sector. He has now switched to a govt sponsored non profit, and so the public sector is now a salvation for blacks.
What his personal life is shouldnt be relevant to discussions about NYC, about blacks, or about any topic, because no thread that I have seen ever goes into our personal lives. That is not, or should not be relevant when we are dealing with topics encompassing larger issues.
I did not say the public sector was a salvation for Blacks.
Stop lying. I said a big percentage of NYC's black middle class (including your beloved Caribbean immigrants) works in the public sector.
You post on emotion yourself. You fell apart and have never forgiven me for calling Wakefield a slum. You made numerous posts to convince me and others Wakefield was some West Indian middle class haven when in fact it is a dump and now one of the worst precincts in the Bronx. That fact (Wakefield/Williamsbridge) crime rate has been posted by others, yet because of your emotional attachment to your fellow West Indians you came up with excuse after excuse for the neighborhood. But the bottom line it is a ghetto with poorly maintained, run down houses.
Data is not all encompasssing but at least it is better than emotional outburts based upon the biases that people might have.
If Nigerians have a much higher % of college educated people then wouldnt one expect Nigerians to have higher household median incomes, than say BLACK AMERICANS, who are considerably less educated? Yes they do and their greater levels of college attainment explains that. Two black groups, one more educated than they other leading to expected results.
But how about of we compare Nigerians with other groups? Whites, considerably less educated but have slightly higher median household incomes. Why? Surely if all things are equal and those who are more educated should have higher lavels of labor force participation, lower unemployment and access to higher paying jobs, then that group should have higher median household incomes. But we see that this isnt the case.
So how about another test. Two mainly immigrant groups, both with better educational profiles than native white Americans. Nigerians have better educational profiles than do Asians and yet have lower median household incomes. Why?
Here we have compared Nigerians to other blacks, to the reference population which is native white, and to other immigrant groups. Based on what we can see several factors impact median household incomes, and being black is clearly one of these factors.
Note also that whereas many white Americans have liberal arts degrees, which will depress median household earnings of those with college education, Nigerians tend to have more rigorous degrees in areas like finance, accounting, engineering and health care.
You are having an emotional outburst. You resort to name calling when you don't get your way in conversations. I guess that's because you are frustrated.
Lastly, you cannot seem to comprehend there is massive fluctuation within an ethnic group because different people within the group will have different resources, intellects, social networks, etc.
You cannot get out of reducing people to giant ethnic robots. Nigerians this, AAs that, etc.
There are Nigerians working at pizza parlors. There are Nigerians with phds from Yale. There are Nigeria school teachers, MTA workers, office managers, restaurant workers, etc. Obviously kids with parents with different professional backgrounds and resources have different opportunity. There is plenty of data like this, but you seem to be in the frame of mind that you'll ignore all data that does not match what you want to believe.
So knock of the claims of intellectual superiority and the psuedo intellectualism. You've shown massive dishonesty.
Talk about some one appointing themselves as a speaker for all blacks. Do you deny that black Americans and US raised Caribbean blacks live in the same neighborhoods, go the the same schools, sometimes attend the same churches, and often work in the same places? Do you therefore not believe that these contacts will create bonds? Do you deny that there still exists some level of segregation by race?
You happen not to like West Indians, that is obvious, but I do not think that you speak for AAs.
Where have I ever claimed AAs share my viewpoints? Each person has different viewpoints, and that is what I was saying all along!
And no, I do not hate West Indians. I'm indifferent to them. I am friends with individuals of any race, ethnicity, or nationality that shares common interests with me. But I don't go out of my way to attach myself to people because they are Black, even if they are AA. I don't like any particular ethnic group and never assess a person like that when I meet or interact with them.
How many American blacks mix extensively with these groups. We do know that AAs and Caribbean blacks live in, and often work in the same places so have very high levels of contact. This being especially true for US raised Caribbean blacks.
Rather than raising a hypothesis why not argue with logic?
Out of a country 300 million, how many Blacks mix extensively with Mexicans?
Go do the research yourself Carib, because you are not arguing with logic.
Most of the country does not have large West Indian communities, but there are many more Mexicans and probably Italian Americans than there are people of West Indian descent (and people from South Carolina or Louisiana who had Caribbean ancestors 200 years ago are NOT CARIBBEAN)!
"But the biggest differences are between different races and ethnicities. The share of whites who marry “out” of their race has more than doubled since 1980, to 9 percent. The percentage of blacks who marry non-blacks has more than tripled, to 17 percent. Asians and Hispanics have the highest rates of intermarriage, with more than a quarter of all Asian newlyweds marrying a non-Asian. But that rate of Hispanics who marry non-Hispanics hasn’t changed since 1980, while the percentage of Asians who intermarry has dipped a bit." Intermarriage rates soar as stereotypes fall - The Washington Post
17% of Blacks nationally are married to a non Black (Asian, White Hispanic). That's a high rate of intermarriage, isn't it. So if you're married to someone or otherwise involved with them, that implies extensive mixing.
This is data and it's factual. Black Americans are not glued to West Indians and interact with them just the way they would with any non AA group.
Many of the Black rappers and athletes marry white or Hispanic women. Russel Simmons was married to a half Asian women. Obviously that's not all AAs, but according to the link I supplied that's 17% of them so that is a high number.
I'm sure people in these married relationships invite their spouses and in laws to various restaurants or cultural activities from the background that the non Black comes from.
So again, why do you speak to project your own personal experiences and attitudes on all Blacks?
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