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One should not fall to the over-generalization that ALL Mexicans are same homogenous mixture of Spanish and Aztec. This was propaganda pushed by the PRI party after the Revolucion to erase the remnants of centuries of colonial caste systems, that still existed more or less until the regime of Porfirio Diaz. The PRI party used the mestizo concept from the book Raza Cosmica by Jose Vasconcelos Calderon, to promote a new Mexican nationality. Although the idea was a good one for political reasons, it has spurned these myths promoted by the Mexican government and accepted by other countries as fact. Hermanos, please read this and learn about our roots, and help dispel the myths that have been promoted by propaganda so that people will know who we Mexicans really are!!
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza_C%C3%B3smica]La Raza Cósmica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
Myth# 1 - All Mexicans have Aztec blood in them. This is horribly false!! First of all, Aztecs were only 1 tribe of thousands that existed in Mexico when Cortes arrived. They became dominant politically and conquered other tribes forming an empire, but when the Spaniards came in 1519, many rival tribes such as the Tlaxcaltecans and Totonacs allied with Cortes to defeat the Aztecs. So not all Indians in Mexico were Aztecs!!
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlaxcala_%28Nahua_state%29]Tlaxcala (Nahua state) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url].
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totonac_people]Totonac people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
Myth # 2 - The Aztecs ruled all of Mexico. This is also false, Aztecs only controlled a small fraction of what later became Mexico. That means, the majority of the country was never ruled by Aztecs and therefore Mexicans with indigenous blood from those regions should not have any Aztec in them at all. The northern half of Mexico was NEVER ruled by Aztecs, you have rival nations such as the Purepecha (Tarascan) and many Chichimeca tribes to the north never conquered by Aztecs. Also, southern regions like Oaxaca and the Mayan territories had and still their own nations and tribes, they are NOT Aztecs. Those indigenous people are still there! President Benito Juarez was Zapotec Indian, not Aztec!!
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_Empire]Aztec Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarascan_state]Tarascan state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichimeca]Chichimeca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_peoples]Maya peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapotec_peoples]Zapotec peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
Myth # 3 - Only white Spaniards came to Mexico. This is also false, records show that many of the "Spaniards" that came were diverse, including many converso Jews and Moors (Berbers), as well as some black Africans, that came along in the conquest of Mexico. Remember, Spain was Muslim for centuries prior to Columbus' discovery, and many Spaniards were of Jewish and Moorish heritage. Additionally, after the Conquest, large numbers of converso Jews, Moors and Gypsies came to New Spain and settled in the new world, mostly fleeing from the Inquisition back in Spain. Among other European colonists, there were also many Portuguese (Portugal and Spain were ruled by the same kings 1580-1640 under the Iberian Union), Genoese and southern Italians (half of Italy was ruled by Spain for centuries as part of the Crown of Aragon), and later Germans and Slavs from the Holy Roman Empire, since both Spain and Holy Roman Empire were ruled by Catholic Habsburgs. Charles King of Spain was also the Holy Roman Emperor, when Cortes conquered Tenochtitlan! Many of these people obviously could grow facial and body hair, and why you see many Mexicans that can do so as well.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Union]Iberian Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_Aragon]Crown of Aragon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V,_Holy_Roman_Emperor]Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
Myth # 4 - All Mexicans are a homogenous 50/50 mix Spaniard and Indian. This is also false, DNA tests have been done to prove that it varies from region and state in Mexico, and from family to family. Couple of things to remember, historical records show that a large percentage of the indigenous population died within a few decades due to small pox and other diseases brought by the Spaniards to Mexico, some estimates saying about 90% died off!! This later caused their need to import African slaves to work the silver mines and fields because there were hardly any Indians left as a labor force. Secondly, the southern half of Mexico was densely populated by native peoples, but the northern half was arid desert and sparsely populated by nomadic tribes or those that lived in small villages rather than huge cities like in the south. So these areas were later settled by mostly Spaniard and other European settlers, hence why the North has less mestization.
Myth # 5 - If you have dark hair and eyes, and olive skin, this is because you are mestizo and have Indian blood. This is not necessarily true! Go to Spain and Portugal, let alone Italy, and you will find many Mediterranean people that could pass as Mexican. Why? Because most Mexicans have Spanish and/or some Portuguese or Italian blood in them! Secondly, many of the Spaniards were of Jewish or Morisco (Moorish) heritage. There are records that in 1492, 1 out of every 4 Spaniards was a Jew or of Jewish background. Even modern DNA studies show that about 20% of modern Spaniards have Jewish DNA. Because of the Inquisition, a great deal of those Converso Jews and Moors fled to the New World to escape, so factor in how many of those made it to Mexico and started families. Moriscos were Moors forced to convert to Catholicism, and were also discriminated and persecuted for centuries due to the Inquisition because of their Muslim roots.
I am Mexican of Jewish Converso blood on my father's side, and Basque Asturian on my mother's with Chichimeca roots. Many of my dad's family look Middle Eastern, and chances are, if you do too, you are probably the same as we are. Major regions of known Jewish Converso settlement are Jalisco and Nuevo Leon, Monterrey was founded and settled by Converso Jews.
On my mother's side, the family ranges from blonde blue and green eyes to those that are dark skinned and curly haired. Because of historical social class stratification, some families did not mix until well into the 20th century after the PRI took over and tried to erase centuries of class division, which also fell along old colonial racial divides from New Spain. You will still see this in larger cities amongst the different social classes. We need to learn our true roots and embrace our diversity.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Converso]Converso - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morisco]Morisco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
SobreTodo, you could not have explained this any better, very good, I am glad someone is doing their research and sharing this with the rest of us. Gracias.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobreTodo
What are you talking about? I dealt with this issue in another one of my articles about the so-called Moors of Spain. If they truly were Moors then why are most “criollos” in Mexico today white people with Spanish last names? Also, for there to have been Moors “in the hundreds of thousands” as you say, then that meant that the local whites of Spain would have still outnumbered the Moors and most of the Moroccan/Algerian countryside would have been completely emptied of its human inhabitants. Today we find the main non-Amerindian Y-chromosome gene (haplogroup) in Mexicans to be R1b, the same that modern Spaniards have. If North Africans were the main population in Spain and the colonizers of Mexico, then the dominant gene would be E1b1b1b2 (E-Z827), not R1b. And we would also find E-Z827 to be a major gene in Spaniards yet it is found only in rather small amounts. They also did a genetic study back in the early 2000’s where a Muslim-era cemetery was dug up and several Islamic (not just Arabic) named (“Muhammad”, “Abdullah”, “Ahmad”, etc.) individuals from the cemetery were gene typed. The researchers found E-Z827 to be higher than in today’s Spanish population, and they also found a higher amount of sub-Saharan (black) genes than in modern Spaniards. However, the majority of the genes in the studied individuals was still R1b, the western European gene. So, even the Muslims of Spain were mainly R1b, not E-Z827. What does that say about their ancestry and the real number of Berbers/non-Europeans in Spain?
It is a well known fact that most of today’s Arabic-speaking peoples are predominantly descended from the pre-Islamic populations that lived there. The true original Arabs, the (peninsular) Arabians (Saudis, Yemenis, Omanis, Qataris, Emiratis), mostly carry Y-DNA haplogroup J1. The main haplogroup in Syrians, Iraqis, Palestinians, Lebanese, Bahrainis, and Jordanians is haplogroup J2, not J1. The main haplogroup in Egyptians and Libyans is E1b1b1b1 while most Tunisians, Algerians, Moroccans, and Mauretanians carry E1b1b1b2. Ironically, the only “Arabs” of the Arab world that carry mostly J1 are the Sudanese, who look black. However, the Sudanese carry a different subclade (“subgene”) of the haplogroup (gene) J1 than the peninsular Arabians. So therefore, who is to say that the “Arabs” (aka “Moors”, which is a foreign name that the Muslims of North Africa & Spain never used for themselves) of Spain were also not locals? It seems like they were because there are many descendants of the Spanish Muslims in Morocco and Tunisia, and many of them look European.
Well, first of all, there is no such thing as “Muslim ancestry”. Second of all, most of the Muslims in Spain were neither North Africans nor Middle Easterners. Initially of course, the first Muslim inhabitants of Spain were Arabians and Berbers. Later on, a few Syrians arrived. However, the majority of the Spaniards living within al-Andalus underwent a gradual process of cultural change similar to the cultural change which would impact most of the Amerindians in Latin America. Notice that when I say “cultural change”, that does not mean “genetic change” or “racial change”. It is simply a change in culture.
Most of the Amerindians in Mexico for example, became admixed with Spaniards. However, for those that didn’t and remained “pure”, their culture was still dramatically changed. They adopted the Castillian (“Spanish”) language and the Roman Catholic religion, and alot of them identify as “Hispanics” or “Latinos” (especially in the USA) even though obviously they are neither Spaniards nor Italians.
Likewise, a similar thing happened in the Muslim-ruled areas of Iberia/Spain itself from the 8th century to the 15th century. The original Muslim conquerors and settlers were mainly Berbers with a minority of Arabian (Bedouin, Yemeni, “Saudi”) settlers and later by a few Syrians who followed the Umayyad caliph ‘Abd ar-Rahman who fled Syria. Add to this a small number of enslaved peoples brought to al-Andalus (mainly blacks and eastern Europeans). Gradually however, the Arabic language and the religion of Islam took hold in the Andalusian society. Notice that at no point in the history of Andalusia were Spaniards ever reduced to a minority. (I use the word Andalusia to refer to all al-Andalus, not just today’s “Andalusia” province of the Kingdom of Spain.) The majority of Spaniards up until the middle of the 10th century were Christians who spoke in a form of Latin. Their form of Latin increasingly adopted Arabic words, phrases, and general lexicon and grammar. Around the middle of the 10th century, the majority of Spaniards living within Andalusia had converted to Islam. The Arabic language was then fully adopted by the 12th century, and it had supplanted the Arabized-Latin dialect (“Mozarabic”) that was spoken in Andalusia. So yes, Muslims did make the majority of Andalusia at one period in history, however, those Muslims were not North Africans or Middle Easterners, those Muslims were Spaniards. By the time of the Fall of Granada, the Muslim Spaniards had assimilated the minorities (MidEasterners, NorthAfricans, Visigoths, blacks, east Europeans) and the whole nation had become an “Arab” Andalusian society. That is to say, they identified as “Arabs” and these are the people who are ignorantly called “Moors” in the West. The only real Moors are Moroccans and North Africans.
That may seem far fetched, but consider that the Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, Moroccans, Libyans, Sudanese, and Mauritanians all identify as “Arab” even though they are of diverse origins and DNA studies have shown none of these people originate from Arabia. The only real Arabs are the Yemenis, Omanis, Saudis, Qataris, Emiratis, and probably Kuwaitis (maybe Jordanians too). Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Palestinians, Bahrainis, Sudanese, Mauritanians, Moroccans, Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians, and the “Arabs” of the Sahara and Iran are not truly Arabs at all. They are just descendants of pre-Islamic peoples who converted to Islam, adopted the Arabic language, and eventually became called as “Arabs”. It’s quite obvious that the Sudanese, for example, are not Arabs but it is harder for people to tell that Syrians, Egyptians, etc. are not Arabs either due to their Middle Eastern looks. So the Andalusian “Arabs” were not Arabs (nor Berbers nor blacks), they were just Arabic-speaking Muslim indigenous Iberians. This is similar to how the “Turks” of Turkey speak Turkish and are Muslims, yet they are obviously not Central Asian or Mongolic; they are Anatolians (plus some Greeks, Caucasians, Slavs, Albanians, etc.) who adopted the Turkish language and the Islamic religion. Spaniards, Portuguese, French, Moldovans, Romanians, and alot of Belgians and Swiss all speak in Romance/Latin languages, though that does not make them Romans or Italians right? This is all proved and backed up by multiple genetic studies. To deny this is to deny scientific evidence and believe in the old ignorance of medieval times.
I also have found that most of the people who claim the Spanish are mixed with Arabs/North Africans/blacks tend to be north Europeans and Americans (especially blacks), not Muslims.
Of course, today’s Spaniards are not Muslim nor Arabic-speaking because the Christian Spanairds from up north drove the Muslims away or converted them to Christianity and imposed the Romance (mostly Castillian) language upon them. Some of the descendants of the Andalusian Muslims live today in villages in Morocco and Tunisia. You’ll find that most of them look European, not North African. In fact, I covered this topic in one of my articles here, you should check it out.
Oh really? In the Y-chromosome, the haplogroup R1b (west European gene) is prevalent and is carried by over 50% of Mexican men. Haplogroups J1/J2 (Middle Eastern) and E1b1b (North African) combined show up in less than 20% of Mexican men. Haplogroups G, I, and R1a (Caucasus, Scandinavian/Balkans, and east Europeean, respectively) show up at around a combined 12% of Mexican males. Haplogroup Q (Amerindian/Native American) is carried by around 16% of Mexican males. Other haplogroups are also present in much smaller amounts. So yes, North Africans, Arabs, and Jews are ancestors of some Mexicans, but most of Mexicans’ male ancestors are Europeans (predominantly western Europeans) as shown by the high percentage of R1b and relatively high combined percentage of R1a, G, and I.
However, the percentage of J1, J2, and E1b1b is similar in Mexicans as it is in Spaniards. So this suggests that most Mexicans did not get this ancestry from North Africans and Middle Easterners directly, but rather they mostly got it from Spanish men who carried these lineages.
Mexicans are very diverse. Spain is very diverse ranging from olive skin to pale blondes. Mesoamerica was also very diverse. Take a closer look and many dark skinned Mexicans look very different from each other. Mexico had ALOT more native civilizations than the U.S. There are natives who are short and rounded but also many who are tall and skinny with high cheek bones. Take all these people, mix them together and you got alot of different looking Mexicans. Many look hardcore native, others look arab, other look italian, and others blend with white americans ( albeit most of these have light skin, dark brown hair, and dark eyes ).
SobreTodo, you could not have explained this any better, very good, I am glad someone is doing their research and sharing this with the rest of us. Gracias.
Mexicans are mostly indigenous people with different degrees of admixtures, id say the majority are predominantly indigenous in admixture, but some are not as much, especially the higher classes.
however the main base of their heritage and culture is indeed the indigenous aztecs, olmecs, mayans etc.
you can see it on their facial features, the name of many of their cities, their food, their celebrations.
Ive been to both spain and mexico and the difference in physical appearance in both countries is quite palpable.... the average mexican face stands out in spain, you can easily tell they come from the americas.
Mexicans are mostly indigenous people with different degrees of admixtures, id say the majority are predominantly indigenous in admixture, but some are not as much, especially the higher classes.
however the main base of their heritage and culture is indeed the indigenous aztecs, olmecs, mayans etc.
you can see it on their facial features, the name of many of their cities, their food, their celebrations.
Ive been to both spain and mexico and the difference in physical appearance in both countries is quite palpable.... the average mexican face stands out in spain, you can easily tell they come from the americas.
Actually, a large percentage of the Mexicans in Spain are from the middle and upper classes, and mostly White. They blend in with the Spaniards. Many are descendants of Spaniards. I lived there and rarely met a Mexican there who had strong indigenous features. This is very different from the Mexican population in the USA.
The people in Spain who had stronger indigenous features were Ecuadorian, Peruvian, and some Colombians.
Mexicans are very diverse. Spain is very diverse ranging from olive skin to pale blondes. Mesoamerica was also very diverse. Take a closer look and many dark skinned Mexicans look very different from each other. Mexico had ALOT more native civilizations than the U.S. There are natives who are short and rounded but also many who are tall and skinny with high cheek bones. Take all these people, mix them together and you got alot of different looking Mexicans. Many look hardcore native, others look arab, other look italian, and others blend with white americans ( albeit most of these have light skin, dark brown hair, and dark eyes ).
I have been asked if my family is a foster home, not kidding! All of my brothers and sisters and I look so different, it is amazing.
I look Asian.
My sister looks Middle Eastern or Italian.
Everyone thinks my mother is Armenian.
My little sister has blondish hair with hazel eyes.
My father looks Native American, like Cherokee.
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf
Actually, a large percentage of the Mexicans in Spain are from the middle and upper classes, and mostly White. They blend in with the Spaniards. Many are descendants of Spaniards. I lived there and rarely met a Mexican there who had strong indigenous features. This is very different from the Mexican population in the USA.
The people in Spain who had stronger indigenous features were Ecuadorian, Peruvian, and some Colombians.
Do the Spanish refer to these white Mexicans as "Latinos". I here that the term Latino in Spain is reserved for Latin Americans of indigenous blood only. Argentines and the Spanish themselves are not consider "Latino" in Europe is what I understand, which is different from what we consider "Latino" in the US.
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