What ancestry do most Mexicans have really? (rain, children, agreement)

[bruhms]

I don't think Traveler86 was referring to the white elite of Mexico but the "white" Mexicans that are 80-100% European and live in small towns, middle class homes, poor areas, and so on. Basically everyday Mexicans that just happen to be whiter than the average.

[Bonez765]

Originally Posted by bruhms

Why would pre-1965 Mexican-American history be relevant to the vast majority of Mexican-Americans who are descended from post-1965 Mexican immigrants? They are different groups of people. Those who are descended from the families that stayed on this side of the border are a small group and are irrelevant. All issue relating to Mexican-Americans in 2014 stem from the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.

^Your post is exactly what I am trying to tell Rudy. Pre-late 1970s Mexican-American history is irrelevant to me and most Mexican-Americans because before then, most Mexican-Americans didn't have any roots here in the US until the large immigration wave that started in the late 1970s. How can I connect with Mexican-Americans from back then when we usually don't have much in common anyway except for maybe similar skin tone and facial features. The Tejanos I can usually connect because they are typically easy-going but the Californian Mexican-Americans, they are about as traumatized as Black-American youth.

[Bonez765]

Originally Posted by Miserere

Not at all, white mexicans are very white and they don't mix because they would loose power. They hang among themselves, in their clubs and colonias, and control the country, plus, I don't think they travel to work in the US, maybe for shopping. I know because I have family in that group and I know them.

You touch on a social-class aspect, not a "racial" one. People in Mexico only mix with other people who they regard to have the same social-class customs and beliefs. This is how Latin societies tend to work.

[Bonez765]

Originally Posted by RudyOD

Which is why those that are not in power must push to have their histories told, even it means just to their own people.

knowing about your own history should be the concern of your parents and relatives. You want the system to teach this when the system has also failed Italian-Americans, German-Americans, French-Americans, etc. The system will only teach what's convenient and nothing else. Look at those group of people. Most of them if you ask them, know very little about their own family or ethnic histories because their parents and other relatives neglected to teach them anything or thought the same as you.

The whole 'it doesn't tie to us' because you are a new/recent immigrant is lazy. If you are moving to a place, whatever that place might be, you should be aware of its history, the complete version, and not the limited one popularized by the powers that be. Plus, in the U.S. even more so, as it is a land that has been hugely settled by immigrants (and, no, not just Anglos) and I have those people to thank for for the current privileges I have as a citizen of this country. People like Gonzalo Mendez, Lorenzo Ramirez (etc.,) Mexican Americans that challenged the segregation of schools in Orange County back in 1946, and therefore thanks to them, I didn't grow up in a 'separate but equal' environment. To say that I, or others, shouldn't be aware of this history or that it shouldn't be taught because it isn't relevant to immigrants like myself that arrived recently is rather narrow-minded.

I say again. How do most Mexican-Americans of now can connect when their parents were too busy in random villages throughout Central Mexico? enlighten me. it's not the lazyman approach. I am being practical and realistic here while you are being how Anglos are typically are (idealists). I am not saying that it shouldn't be taught. I would say quite the contrary but why push it as hard when most Mexican-Americans can't connect to those.

[RudyOD]

Originally Posted by bruhms

Why would pre-1965 Mexican-American history be relevant to the vast majority of Mexican-Americans who are descended from post-1965 Mexican immigrants? They are different groups of people. Those who are descended from the families that stayed on this side of the border are a small group and are irrelevant. All issue relating to Mexican-Americans in 2014 stem from the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.

This will be the equivalent of starting a high school American history class around the post Cold-War time, since everything that happened before then is not really relevant to the youth taking that class.

Originally Posted by Bonez765

^Your post is exactly what I am trying to tell Rudy. Pre-late 1970s Mexican-American history is irrelevant to me and most Mexican-Americans because before then, most Mexican-Americans didn't have any roots here in the US until the large immigration wave that started in the late 1970s. How can I connect with Mexican-Americans from back then when we usually don't have much in common anyway except for maybe similar skin tone and facial features. The Tejanos I can usually connect because they are typically easy-going but the Californian Mexican-Americans, they are about as traumatized as Black-American youth.

I'm not sure how you getting along with Americans of Mexican descent who have history here has anything to do with anything, rather than your own biases. Again, it doesn't matter if the Mexican community pre-1970's wasn't as large as it is now. A lot of rights that we have in California and the nation as a people are due to those that fought against discrimination, racism and exploitation. Again, all you are demonstrating is how narrow minded you are to think that their lives are irrelevant and it isn't worthwhile knowledge for Mexican Americans to be aware of such things as the Zoot Suit Riots, Mendez V. Westminster (1947 - desegregation of schools), Hernandez V. Texas (1954 - Mexican Americans have equal protection under the 14th amendment and the constitution and that we aren't just foreigners that can be deported at the government's will) etc etc. A lot of the people involved in the civil rights (and Chicano) movements of the 1960's and 70's were people who were here before hand (meaning they grew up here, went to school here, served in the military), not recently arrived immigrants post 1965.

I'm not sure how any of this history is irrelevant to ANY Mexican American, or incoming immigrant, as it is this to these people that we have the protections and privileges we have now.

[rosa surf]

Originally Posted by RudyOD

This will be the equivalent of starting a high school American history class around the post Cold-War time, since everything that happened before then is not really relevant to the youth taking that class.



I'm not sure how you getting along with Americans of Mexican descent who have history here has anything to do with anything, rather than your own biases. Again, it doesn't matter if the Mexican community pre-1970's wasn't as large as it is now. A lot of rights that we have in California and the nation as a people are due to those that fought against discrimination, racism and exploitation. Again, all you are demonstrating is how narrow minded you are to think that their lives are irrelevant and it isn't worthwhile knowledge for Mexican Americans to be aware of such things as the Zoot Suit Riots, Mendez V. Westminster (1947 - desegregation of schools), Hernandez V. Texas (1954 - Mexican Americans have equal protection under the 14th amendment and the constitution and that we aren't just foreigners that can be deported at the government's will) etc etc. A lot of the people involved in the civil rights (and Chicano) movements of the 1960's and 70's were people who were here before hand (meaning they grew up here, went to school here, served in the military), not recently arrived immigrants post 1965.

I'm not sure how any of this history is irrelevant to ANY Mexican American, or incoming immigrant, as it is this to these people that we have the protections and privileges we have now.

Agree with you 100%.

[Miserere]

Originally Posted by Bonez765

You touch on a social-class aspect, not a "racial" one. People in Mexico only mix with other people who they regard to have the same social-class customs and beliefs. This is how Latin societies tend to work.

Not the ones I know. In fact, they hardly hang around with Mexicans originary from a different Spanish community. They usually marry among themselves. The only mixed marriages are Asturians or Galicians with Basque, Asturians with Catalans, etc. As to white Mexicans, I've seen a lot that indeed are white. I don't know if the great whatsoever was not white, who cares? Not different from Americans that tend to look strange and that most don't have the foggiest idea of their origin.

[Bonez765]

Originally Posted by RudyOD

I'm not sure how you getting along with Americans of Mexican descent who have history here has anything to do with anything, rather than your own biases. Again, it doesn't matter if the Mexican community pre-1970's wasn't as large as it is now. A lot of rights that we have in California and the nation as a people are due to those that fought against discrimination, racism and exploitation. Again, all you are demonstrating is how narrow minded you are to think that their lives are irrelevant and it isn't worthwhile knowledge for Mexican Americans to be aware of such things as the Zoot Suit Riots, Mendez V. Westminster (1947 - desegregation of schools), Hernandez V. Texas (1954 - Mexican Americans have equal protection under the 14th amendment and the constitution and that we aren't just foreigners that can be deported at the government's will) etc etc. A lot of the people involved in the civil rights (and Chicano) movements of the 1960's and 70's were people who were here before hand (meaning they grew up here, went to school here, served in the military), not recently arrived immigrants post 1965.

I'm not sure how any of this history is irrelevant to ANY Mexican American, or incoming immigrant, as it is this to these people that we have the protections and privileges we have now.

blah blah blah. calling me narrow minded when as I said, how can the current generation connect to this when most descend from immigrants that came after the late 1970s. and your answers to all this problem that Mexican-American history isn't taught in schools is to cry to the School boards when they are also failing to teach the histories of the other ethnicites that have settled in the US (read Spanish colonization in the US and the French people from Louisiana). you want to cry to those very same people who are doing this ****. it has always been multiple factors that have taught the cultural background to children in all ethnicities (schools, religious institutions, family figures, friends, etc). you only want to touch one aspect of these factors, which has proven to not be enough in doing so (as I mentioned in failing to teach about the histories of the Spaniards who settled first in the US; first colony in American soil was one established by Hispanics, not the Anglos) and not the others. you sound exactly as what the hypocritical *******s do. when all else fails, always go crying to the government and the geniuses in the American government put in their simplified crap and make things worse (examples: war on drugs, NCLB, etc).

your idea is honorable and I respect it but it's not enough. crying to school boards will never be enough. if you truly want to change things, you have to involve all factors that I mentioned but will never happen here in the US because the US lacks those sorts of institutions for everybody as a whole thanks to it being too individualist and tribalistic, which is why the US lacks a true culture and a true collective identity.

[Bonez765]

Originally Posted by Miserere

Not the ones I know. In fact, they hardly hang around with Mexicans originary from a different Spanish community. They usually marry among themselves. The only mixed marriages are Asturians or Galicians with Basque, Asturians with Catalans, etc. As to white Mexicans, I've seen a lot that indeed are white. I don't know if the great whatsoever was not white, who cares? Not different from Americans that tend to look strange and that most don't have the foggiest idea of their origin.

lol. let them do as they please. I honestly could care less. I have heard of those communities as well but I really don't care about them.

[Miserere]

Why should you care?