Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Ware: insurance, house, buy)

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Go get informed. Do you have kids in public school? Just check out the extensive list of required vaccinations for students in my town. And last fall, Baker added influenza to the list. To single out Covid as somehow being exceptional to this norm, especially considering it's been proven to result in so much death and havoc, is irrational.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...hxfEppK_I/edit

I never said schools did not require them for many years. I know they do. Most of the vaccines are safe except the covid ones.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

It also takes us out of the current situation where we’re going to bankrupt all the hospitals because they have to pay $6k/week for traveling nurses after all their staff quits from treating all the idiots who aren’t vaccinated. The financials for the hospital holding companies who own the regional hospitals in red states is really ugly. CHS is on the ropes. That’s 84 hospitals that are almost all in low vaccination rate regions. Boston largely doesn’t have that problem because even the low income areas had big community outreach and have relatively high vaccination rates.

Again, it’s your civic duty to get vaccinated.

Yes, the idea that the decision not to do anything to prevent Covid-19 infection affects only that person is a fallacy. The decision impacts friends, family, community and coworkers who will catch it from you, it affects hospitals and hospital workers who have to deal with the oversized workload of treating Covid-19 patients and the stress, it affects patients who need treatment for other conditions and have to compete with a deluge of Covid-19 patients who basically opt into the diseased state, etc, etc, etc.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

It was never as wide scale as it is now. It's always been wrong. No inconsistency here. Now they are adding that requirement for entering businesses and purchasing items

You have made sweeping claims like this again and again without including one shred of evidence to support them. You have no idea what you're talking about and don't seem to care as long as the ridiculous things you say fall in line with some nutty narrative. Vaccine requirements for work and school have been the norm for a long, long, long time. All sorts of medical testing have been required depending on the job, in fact. My father, a Vietnam Vet who has been known to dabble in conservative conspiracies from time to time, is even rolling his eyes at this stuff. Back in 1970 when he enlisted, he was injected with shot after shot after shot. They didn't even tell him what they were injecting him with or watch to ensure there wasn't a reaction. Just shot, shot, shot, shot, etc. "next!" - that practice is still pretty standard today.

Most schools in MA require a minimum of DTP, Polio, MMR, Chicken Pox, HepB, and a lead test. My employer required records of most of those (not Chicken Pox or lead) upon hire and requires an annual flu shot which they offer on-site every year. A COVID-19 vaccine requirement is a perfectly reasonable addition to that list. In fact, I'd argue it's more important than the flu vaccine since COVID considering the combination of danger from the virus and vaccine efficacy.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

I never said schools did not require them for many years. I know they do. Most of the vaccines are safe except the covid ones.

Correction. They're all safe. And these are mandates, by government no less, which you seem to have no problem with. Heck even chickenpox is on the list, and it's seldom if ever fatal! There is a *lot* more rationale for Covid to be on this list.

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Correction. They're all safe. And these are mandates, by government no less, which you seem to have no problem with. Heck even chickenpox is on the list, and it's seldom if ever fatal! There is a *lot* more rationale for Covid to be on this list.

Correction I am against all mandates let the parents decide for the kids.

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by lrfox

You have made sweeping claims like this again and again without including one shred of evidence to support them.

Yes places of work did require them but MORE places are requiring them now. They have never pushed a vaccine like they do the covid ones now. It's 24 /7 on the tv vaccine vaccine vaccine. Get your shot get your shot!!!

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Go get informed. Do you have kids in public school? Just check out the extensive list of required vaccinations for students in my town. And last fall, Baker added influenza to the list. To single out Covid as somehow being exceptional to this norm, especially considering it's been proven to result in so much death and havoc, is irrational.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...hxfEppK_I/edit

That is another curious thing, and one can consider all the precedent for vaccine requirements, or more generally, the nature of being subject to any laws or regulations, since those opposed are always ranting about Nazis and totalitarian states, freedom and authoritarian rule. I don't have any kind of exact count, but between state, federal and city/town laws, I'd guess each of us is subject to thousands of laws, and if you include regulations, I'd guess it may be 10s of thousands of restrictions. These laws and regulations are set up by our elected representatives, and don't require the consent of each individual - indeed there would never be universal agreement on anything, and even majority agreement (a referendum on everything) would be completely impractical.

This is done in every country, and people can in principle arbitrarily choose any constraint and say you disagree and refuse to comply. Compliance though, isn't optional. You can't say "Yes but I like rape" or "Yes but I want to to have a shorefront outhouse on the lake" and expect to get away with it. And yet, the world keeps turning, and for the most part, people accept that indirect representation, laws and regulations are needed. Until Covid-19 that is. Beyond the obvious persistent disinformation campaigns that disorient people and give them false beliefs, what basis is there for the great groundswell of opposition to public health methods which can be used to tackle the pandemic? Why this? I have yet to see anything valid, just recapitulation of disinformation.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

Correction I am against all mandates let the parents decide for the kids.

Well, point is that that ship has sailed a long time ago. Parents can opt for home schooling if they don't want to leave their kids unvaccinated, and endanger the rest of society. Same with the military, they've had these in place for decades. Being up in arms about a Covid vaccine, to the point of being willing to die from it (as many are), is totally counter to how US society has evolved in modern times.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

They have never pushed a vaccine like they do the covid ones now. It's 24 /7 on the tv vaccine vaccine vaccine. Get your shot get your shot!!!

Smallpox and Polio have a very similar history with regards to vaccines. MA was actually the first state to mandate a smallpox vaccine.

https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/art...-massachusetts

Here we are 116 years later doing the same stuff.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

That is another curious thing, and one can consider all the precedent for vaccine requirements, or more generally, the nature of being subject to any laws or regulations, since those opposed are always ranting about Nazis and totalitarian states, freedom and authoritarian rule. I don't have any kind of exact count, but between state, federal and city/town laws, I'd guess each of us is subject to thousands of laws, and if you include regulations, I'd guess it may be 10s of thousands of restrictions. These laws and regulations are set up by our elected representatives, and don't require the consent of each individual - indeed there would never be universal agreement on anything, and even majority agreement (a referendum on everything) would be completely impractical.

This is done in every country, and people can in principle arbitrarily choose any constraint and say you disagree and refuse to comply. Compliance though, isn't optional. You can't say "Yes but I like rape" or "Yes but I want to to have an outhouse with a shorefront view on the lake" and expect to get away with it. And yet, the world keeps turning, and for the most part, people accept that indirect representation, laws and regulations are needed. Until Covid-19 that is. Beyond the obvious persistent disinformation campaigns that disorient people and give them false beliefs, what basis is there for the great groundswell of opposition to public health methods which can be used to tackle the pandemic? Why this? I have yet to see anything valid, just recapitulation of disinformation.

^This is exactly my point. Why Covid became a turning point for some folks, is totally inexplicable to me. Maybe historians will be more successful at figuring it out.