Coronavirus in Massachusetts (insurance, home, tenant) - (MA) - Page 1417 - City-Data Forum

Amontillado · 09-21-2021, 12:05 PM

Rational people do recognize that a few children are dying of COVID, and that obviously needs to be addressed. Also, every carrier of the disease makes it more common in the population generally, and that puts everyone at risk. So children should be protected, and I'm sure the experts (people who know more than anyone who wastes their time on internet forums ever will) are working on it.

justyouraveragetenant · 09-21-2021, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

https://twitter.com/yourgeniushands/...11078200147969

OK this made me laugh. Funeral Home promoting not getting the vaccine.

There is a video on bitchute of a funeral director claiming in 2020 the amount of deaths seemed normal to him but after people got vaccinated people started dying more. He said a 23 year old had a heart attack. There is all kinds of stuff out there if you look for it.

Recently they filmed doctors and nurses worried about the vaccine by project veritas. A nurse was speaking out about the vaccine. They filmed them secretly.

FlurryCat · 09-21-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

There is a video on bitchute of a funeral director claiming in 2020 the amount of deaths seemed normal to him but after people got vaccinated people started dying more. He said a 23 year old had a heart attack.

Claiming
He said
I heard
People are saying

Quote:

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

There is all kinds of stuff out there if you look for it.

Yes, "The Truth Is Out There." And any time your search leads you to something that contradicts your preconceived beliefs it's Fake News Liberal Media.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

project veritas

And all the indictments and lawsuits are an effort by the left to silence these fine, upstanding truth-tellers.

bostongymjunkie · 09-21-2021, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayrandom

I've never said you don't understand or accept the scientific method. You don't seem to be applying it to this particular debate, however. In a science-informed debate, once someone presents evidence, the two rebuttals are either:

1) Criticism of why that specific research is flawed
2) Evidence of similar veracity that contradicts the research

Anything outside of that isn't productive discussion. You can 'disagree with my assembly of the facts', but unless you cite specifically what the problems are, what your solution to those problems are, and why your solutions are better, you are reasoning is effectively 'because I said so'.

That being said, once you move beyond the specifics of the facts in question, the choice of what to do isn't a scientific one, but rather a social and political one. This distinction is something that has been frustratingly absent from the 'believe science' crowd. It is one thing to say, "the Moderna/Pfizer/J+J vaccines are safe and effective" and that is a scientific question that has been answered in a scientific way with a resounding "yes". If you believe otherwise and think that point is important enough for you to want me to agree with you, you will need to present significantly more compelling evidence than you have so far.

It is, however, another to say, "so everyone must take these vaccines". That is not a scientific question, and the scientific method isn't particularly useful for answering that question. I can point to studies that say, if you take the vaccine your risk of severe illness and death are decreased, or studies that say if everyone takes the vaccine the overall risk of death and illness are decreased, but those are different questions.

When it comes to science, Facebook and YouTube span the gambit in quality from way better than CNN/FOX to far, far worse. I'm not, nor would I ever, suggest that popular media outlets are the only acceptable sources of scientific information. For better or worse, I would say peer-reviewed journals are the only acceptable source of scientific information. And even those need to be approached skeptically. If you don't have any trust in peer-reviewed journals, there is little hope of convincing you of anything.

I never said that people who disagree are not as smart or that their viewpoints don't deserve to be heard. In a collective society, though, dissent from a majority opinion does not always shield you from having to comply with that majority opinion. There are exceptions and the boundaries of those exceptions are always going to be a topic of debate. I accept that we may have a difference of opinion on this particular issue, but that doesn't mean that I will relent and just do what you think is best because I can't convince you otherwise.

I wasn't necessarily saying you specifically are implying that others are not as smart but the board is littered with snarky comments toward anyone with an opposing view or toward anyone who has chosen not to get the available vaccines. But I will add that beginning your post with a lectorial on how the scientific method works isn't too far off. As I implied, we can have dozens of separate conversations about individual studies and what they imply under specific conditions. It's quite another to take some studies on certain vaccines and say these individual studies are "scientific evidence" proving that vaccine mandates are justified. I don't see that evidence. I do see a lot of assertions here that are allegedly based in science that are just opinion based on what someone believes a collection of studies represents to them (hence comments on "trusting the experts" and the like) which are NOT scientific or logic based arguments. Like I said, these issues involve more than science, including ethics, race, history and other philosophical paradigms which cannot be simply dismissed. It's not simply about science vs non-science, conservatives vs leftists, or educated vs uneducated (some of the most vaccine hesitant for example have PhD's).

My prime objections to the handful of people who dominate this thread daily is in their choice to turn not only act as if this is all black and white and to snarkily insult anyone with different views. There is certainly no mandate to have respect for opposing views on this board. But hey if you want to come here and act is as if you are on a mission from "science" as if you are a prophet on a mission from God, don't be surprised when you get called out. We don't have all the answers and we're only a very short duration into this, in the grand scheme of things.

OutdoorLover · 09-21-2021, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlurryCat

Claiming
He said
I heard
People are saying

Yes, "The Truth Is Out There." And any time your search leads you to something that contradicts your preconceived beliefs it's Fake News Liberal Media.

And all the indictments and lawsuits are an effort by the left to silence these fine, upstanding truth-tellers.

As far as the all the people being seriously affected, or killed - you have all the photos, and videos of overflowing wards, emergency field hospitals set up, refrigerated morgue trucks, etc - plus interviews with people in hospitals, both patients and healthcare workers, and not just in the USA, but around the world - how could the entire world get agreement on creating this impossibly elaborate facade that conspiratorially-minded people believe is the real explanation for all this information that is "fake"? How? How could that be done? How could they prevent the hundreds of thousands of people "on the inside" of this global conspiracy from talking? And what possible common motive could there be for so many people around the world to do this???

And why are some random outliers making contrary (and often odd) claims somehow more credible than all the weight of evidence that's being discarded? Heck, there was a nurse who testified that she was being magnetized by the vaccine, and when asked to demonstrate that at a hearing, she failed. Who knows why she made this claim, but she is just as credible as these people claiming that the vaccines modify your DNA and hundreds of other "alternative facts". Just because there are very some small minority of people who make a claim, doesn't mean it's true. The thing I can't understand is, some people seem to think that the more people who agree that something is true, the *less* likely it is to actually *be* true, so you should seize upon the contrarians that stick out as the exceptions because they contradict all the conventional evidence and anoint them as truth-tellers. I will never understand that.

justyouraveragetenant · 09-21-2021, 04:23 PM

We all have bias. It's human nature.. I don't believe a funeral director is any evidence of people dying from the vaccine. I don't even know what this qanon nonsense is about. There are however some doctors who at the very least think we should exercise caution by mass vaccinating during a pandemic. Some theories are that it will create variants. This is only one doctor who thinks we should not vaccinate during a pandemic...
https://michaelsavage.com/vaccine-su...s-coming-true/

I post in the politics and controversies forum but I sometimes get bored there too many people agree with me. The massechusetts forum is interesting because the thoughts are so opposing. The echo chamber here fascinates me and I want to give massechusetts a different perspective. We live so close but think like we are from different planets. This might surprise you but I watch CNN so I know how my enemy is thinking. I want to know what right is going to be taken away or outrageous mandate is next and CNN is very reliable in that respect.