Coronavirus in Massachusetts (avg, forecast, wedding)

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

If you look at excess deaths, you'll notice that flu season 2019-2020 was mild, as was 2018-2019 (2017-2018 was relatively severe though). Anyway, with what we know about the demographic of those mostly effected, it has tended to be the elderly, i.e. the demographic also most likely to die in a moderate or severe flu season, that hadn't happened in a while. The numbers add up. We have people that benefited from low flu seasons in recent times that have now mostly died in the first couple months of this new virus. At this point, there remaining population is going to be pretty hard for the virus to take out (it largely took out the very weakest among us, those that likely would have died in a more normal flu season), especially as it mutates to a less deadly form and we as a population build immunity.

Both the USA as a whole and Massachusetts as a state are now below that excess death line.

Across Europe, masks are being scrapped, children are going back to school with minimal restrictions, and life is approaching a more "normal" vibe, though not quite there. I do not see why Massachusetts and pretty much all of America shouldn't be doing the same.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/d...lyExcessDeaths

Can you qualify your "across Europe" statement, because it does not align with what friends are reporting in areas of density equal to eastern MA (e.g., Germany, France). Lower density Nordic countries are not really applicable.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Across Europe, masks are being scrapped, children are going back to school with minimal restrictions, and life is approaching a more "normal" vibe, though not quite there. I do not see why Massachusetts and pretty much all of America shouldn't be doing the same.

Germany: Masks mandatory indoors and on public transport
Italy: Masks mandatory in shops and on public transport
Greece: Masks mandatory indoors and on public transport
Portugal: Masks mandatory in schools, shops, and public transport
Spain: Masks mandatory anywhere social distancing cannot be maintained
France: Masks mandatory in shops and on public transport
England: Masks mandatory on public transport


You're not going to get far in Europe without a mask.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Germany: Masks mandatory indoors and on public transport
Italy: Masks mandatory in shops and on public transport
Greece: Masks mandatory indoors and on public transport
Portugal: Masks mandatory in schools, shops, and public transport
Spain: Masks mandatory anywhere social distancing cannot be maintained
France: Masks mandatory on public transport
England: Masks mandatory on public transport


You're not going to get far in Europe without a mask.

Most of what you post is on public transit. This is not very stringently enforced, in general. Spain is probably the strictest. The UK is returning students to physical classes without social distancing or masks. My customers in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland report quite reduced face mask and distancing (which was in many cases only 1 meter and not the 2 meters of the US and UK) Actually none of the Nordic countries CDC equivalents recommend masks at all.

However, maybe I should have left this part out of the original post, because the real information I want people to focus on is the excess death. This is very hard to explain if we are truly in the midst of such a uniquely bad and unpredictable pandemic.

[bohemka]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Germany: Masks mandatory indoors and on public transport
Italy: Masks mandatory in shops and on public transport
Greece: Masks mandatory indoors and on public transport
Portugal: Masks mandatory in schools, shops, and public transport
Spain: Masks mandatory anywhere social distancing cannot be maintained
France: Masks mandatory in shops and on public transport
England: Masks mandatory on public transport


You're not going to get far in Europe without a mask.

Heck, right now, you're not even getting to Europe.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by bohemka

Heck, right now, you're not even getting to Europe.

ha! this is also true.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Most of what you post is on public transit. This is not very stringently enforced, in general. Spain is probably the strictest. The UK is returning students to physical classes without social distancing or masks. My customers in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland report quite reduced face mask and distancing (which was in many cases only 1 meter and not the 2 meters of the US and UK) Actually none of the Nordic countries CDC equivalents recommend masks at all.

However, maybe I should have left this part out of the original post, because the real information I want people to focus on is the excess death. This is very hard to explain if we are truly in the midst of such a uniquely bad and unpredictable pandemic.

What part of “must wear masks in shops” in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Greece do you fail to comprehend?

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

What part of “must wear masks in shops” in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Greece do you fail to comprehend?

The part which doesn’t align with the desired narrative.

Just got off a call with my employers sister R&D site in Milan. Kids are still at home. Mask usage ubiquitous.

[bjimmy24]

Ok, of course you people have attached yourself to the mask thing (who is obsessed about masks again? me? seems like you actually)

Let me know when you want to address something the Media hasn't told you about already. Lol the irony of accusing me of a "narrative" is beyond hilarious.

Again: explain the excess death chart in the context that we are living through a uniquely dangerous and unpredictable pandemic that casts into doubt things such as even having kids go to school in person.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

What part of “must wear masks in shops” in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Greece do you fail to comprehend?

Trust me, bro, ALL my customers are in Europe. You can read whatever sources online (though I highly doubt you speak a foreign language to confirm) but at the end of the day, these things largely aren't enforced. What part of this do you fail to comprehend?

How do you explain the excess death chart I posted in the context of this being a uniquely dangerous and unpredictable virus?

Or do you want to keep avoiding anything of substance because you haven't downloaded those opinions yet?

By the way, like I said, UK returning to physical education, no social distancing! Great news! Aren't you outraged though?

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Trust me, bro, ALL my customers are in Europe. You can read whatever sources online (though I highly doubt you speak a foreign language to confirm) but at the end of the day, these things largely aren't enforced. What part of this do you fail to comprehend?

How do you explain the excess death chart I posted in the context of this being a uniquely dangerous and unpredictable virus?

Or do you want to keep avoiding anything of substance because you haven't downloaded those opinions yet?

By the way, like I said, UK returning to physical education, no social distancing! Great news! Aren't you outraged though?

Excess death is your deciding metric? Look at hospitalizations, please...which are rising in all the states which reopened too early or never shutdown in the first place. Listen--even for the ones who survive this--the effects are severe and long-lasting, with lesions and reduced lung capacity. You seem hellbent on equating this at various times with a flu or common cold, but the point is this is no picnic for those who get it and survive...and potentially life-changing.

Shutting down broadly may not be the answer, and I'm not advocating that, but minimizing the severity of COVID is equally irresponsible.