Racism really that rampant in Indy? (Indianapolis, Fishers: public school, taxes, living)

[Humboldt1]

I know plenty about indy, particularly the south and east side as I spent 25 years there growing up. We did most of our shopping and nights out in Indianapolis. I grew up watching Bob Gregory do the news, etc so I know indy quite well.

I have worked in both indianapolis and fishers.

Toxic toast,

Sorry you and I have differing opinions but that is what makes these forums interesting. For what it is worth, I have considered coming back to work in Indy but have not found the high paying jobs that are much more common in a big city like Chicago (including allowance for cost of living difference).

[chalcedony]

Humboldt--

Indy's south side was historically blue collar and southern-influenced and the north side was affluent. The polarization is decreasing, if anything--there are far more middle and upper middle class families on the south side of Indianapolis than there were 50 years ago.

Most of the people you would call "trashy" in Chicago (a term usually reserved only for low-income whites) have been pushed out of the city and are in the southern and southwestern suburbs. The low income minority population that survives in Chicago limits is overwhelmingly dependent upon federal aid--the urban machine politics, as well as prevailing taste cultures, are far more comfortable with subsidies for racial minorities than they are for whites. That and the fact that Chicago has a very very low homeownership rate, whereas Indianapolis has plenty of working class whites (the folks you and your GF no doubt think are "trashy") who still own their own homes.

When I used to live in Chicago, I recall the Lincolnwood Town Center being perceived as "trashy"--and that was on the good side of town! But of course it was primarily patronized by minorities so people had to measure their words. Applying such labels is insensitive and bigoted, regardless of the amount of melanin in the person's skin--and your labels reveal far more about you than they do about people who live on the east side or south side of Indy. You've pigeonholed yourself into the stereotype of a Chicagoan who sneers at Indianapolis, much the same way people in Indiana completely unjustifiably sneer at Kentucky, and New Yorkers look down at Chicagoans as "flyover country" backwater hicks. I used to live in Boston and I saw plenty of white people you would probably call "trashy"--and this in one of the most well-educated cities in the world. Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in his/her mouth, nor does everyone aspire to that.

Try taking the high road and rise above it all--look at each place (and its people) for their own merits.

[Humboldt1]

Indianapolis is far less concentrated than Chicago with a lot more single family homes. Many of the people who own homes in the Chicagoland area live in the burbs. This is behind the lower homeownership rates.

Lincolnwood is an average suburb, similar to Niles with an older European population that is stagnant or in slow decline, much like the areas of northwest Chicago (except Park Ridge).


Chalcedony,

Nice post but I do not see myself as a snobby Chicagoan as a farm boy from Indiana who was able to succeed in Chicago.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

Chalcedony,

Nice post but I do not see myself as a snobby Chicagoan as a farm boy from Indiana who was able to succeed in Chicago.

Really? You told us we are naive.

[wh15395]

To all people in Chicago, just be quiet. You all live in one of the most racist and segregated big cities in the country so don't even get off trying to talk bad about Indianapolis. Chicago is perceived as one of the most diverse cities in the country, but that doesn't mean that all of the races live near each other. I am not saying Indianapolis is less segregated than Chicago, but for the 3rd biggest city in the country, Chicago should be way better than Indianapolis.

[Humboldt1]

No comparison between Chicago and Indy. Apples and oranges.

[Colts]

Originally Posted by chalcedony

people in Indiana completely unjustifiably sneer at Kentucky

Huh? Who does this? And why?

[Humboldt1]

Lots of people in southern Indiana sneer at Kentucky, especially as you approach the Ohio River. I will take Covington over Vevay anyday.

Many in Greenwood refer to Shelbyville as Shelbytucky. It is basically more about rural vs country than north vs south much as some Chicagoans think Wisconsin is for hicks.

Southeast Indiana, where my family still lives and farms, is not the most progressive area but it does have its advantages. Other than cheap cost of living, people are more honest and just all around nicer. Less to do sure, but indy and cincy are only an hour away

[Humboldt1]

Also, I am not disputing that Chicago is racist or segregated. In Chicago, we have low income hispanics as buffers between black and white neighborhoods. This can be seen from aerial maps that show race concentrations. I would be curious to see the maps for indy but would guess the far north and south are more white with larger minority populations on the east and west sides.

I don't think Chicago is anymore or less racist than Indy, just more pc about it. There are only a few blue collar white communities in the Chicago area where people still tell black jokes, while this was commonplace where I grew up in southern Indiana.

This may be due in part that there are no minorities to offend in rural areas like this with just juvenile behavior when you have homogeneous white population. I have seen similiar behavior in downstate illinois, rural Wisconsin and Michigan.

I actually like the bluntness and lack of pc that I was used to in indy prior to moving to Chicago where it is much more liberal and people are offended much more easily.

If you ask someone in Indy how they would feel if their daughter dated a black man you might get a square answer (I would not care nor would my parents) but in Chicago they will skate around the issue if they do not favor such an arrangement.

Also, I have found in general people in business are less honest in Chicago and perhaps this is due to it being a larger market where it is easier to get away with duping multiple people multiple times. Indy is a much smaller market and it truly is "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". Not so in bigger cities where not everyone knows each other. I miss that about Indy, where the commercial banking community is really small with just a few players.

[Dyadic]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

I have always said that it is "ghetto black CULTURE" not race that is the problem.

WH15395,

I have no problem with buppies such as yourself.

You are very similar to the blacks I went to school with and work with (except the admins, different social and education class, more working class). It is mostly a white world in commercial banking but I do have some fellow bankers who are black.

Ghetto culture is a problem amongst whites as well, the welfare and food stamp folks but it is not as concentrated as much of it is in rural areas such as the one I grew up in.

There are actually slightly more whites on welfare than blacks but blacks are a far smaller percentage of the population.

In Chicago "section 8 people" has become a code word for black as Chicago is a third white, black, and hispanic.

Blacks 86 percent of section 8
Whites 3 percent
Hispanics 11 percent

I would be curious to see the numbers for Indy.

The federal government defines welfare as all entitlement programs funded through taxes. These programs, listed as "direct benefit payments for individuals" by the Office of Management and Budget. Social Security is the nation's largest welfare program, although many Whites prefer to call it a retirement plan. The government writes retirement and disability benefit checks to 35.4 million recipients of whom 88.7 percent are White and 9.6 percent are Black. White don't make up 88.7 percent of the population. The reason behind this shocking disparity is perhaps the most lamentable of all: The life expectancy rate for Blacks is six years shorter than that of Whites, meaning Black workers spend years paying into a retirement system only to have White retirees reap the benefits for a longer time. And lets not talk about corporate welfare.