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I grew up on the Southside of Indianapolis in the 1960s and 1970s. As a child and a teenager I saw, on more than on occasion, KKK meetings and the requisite cross burnings. One in particular I remember well, as we were driving down Meridian St. just south of Banta Road, where on the west side of Meridian was a nursery (like trees and plants nursery.) There was a large crowd of people gathered there and the cross was quite prominent, and definitely in flames.
I remember asking my parents what was going on, and they explained what the KKK was and how they had meetings that would often culminate in cross burnings or something of that sort.
I remember another one as a teenager when I was in high school. We heard rumors about it and went to investigate. It took place at an old Moose lodge that was on Wicker Road, west of SR 37. We went and parked on the road and walked up close enough so that we could see what was taking place.
I never said nor implied that cross burnings were taking place in the present. My point was only that there was some serious racism going on at the time, and living in the area recently exposed me to plenty of it, if not as overt, that's all.
RM
That was 50-60 years ago. If the topic is so tiring, why do you keep coming back to it? You brought up cross burnings with no frame of refence, why is it so shocking people would want to know more?
That was 50-60 years ago. If the topic is so tiring, why do you keep coming back to it? You brought up cross burnings with no frame of refence, why is it so shocking people would want to know more?
Again, taking my comments out of context, which is tiring, to say the least. I never said anything about this being "shocking", so I'm not sure where that's coming from. My comments were made relative to the area and in historical context.
I guess some people feel the need to be "most right".
Again, taking my comments out of context, which is tiring, to say the least. I never said anything about this being "shocking", so I'm not sure where that's coming from. My comments were made relative to the area and in historical context.
I guess some people feel the need to be "most right".
RM
We wouldn't know; it appears the comment you originally made has disappeared.
someone brings up Cross burnings, people ask about cross burnings, that someone then gets defensive and says "that's not what I meant"
but then why mention the cross burnings at all?
or the kkk
I mean, you're not even telling me where i can go to join these fascinating meetings you have attended.
someone brings up Cross burnings, people ask about cross burnings, that someone then gets defensive and says "that's not what I meant"
but then why mention the cross burnings at all?
or the kkk
I mean, you're not even telling me where i can go to join these fascinating meetings you have attended.
As I stated I did not attend any of them directly, I just saw them from a distance.
As for the ability to join and participate, short of locating a group of like-thinking individuals in your area, time travel would be your only option.
As I stated I did not attend any of them directly, I just saw them from a distance.
As for the ability to join and participate, short of locating a group of like-thinking individuals in your area, time travel would be your only option.
I'm not looking to make waves...but have to ask...
I was in Indianapolis last week on business. I stopped at a gas station over on the east side of town. A couple big white dudes staffing the place, mix of black and white patrons.
A nicely dressed black woman came in, and one of these guys says "what's up, [n-word] mama?"...and continues to make really crude comments aloud about "doing her" and throws in more racial statements.
Now...here in North Idaho, which is 99% white and people think that somehow makes us racists, one of us WHITE GUYS still would have slapped that racist piece of trash upside the head....but in this place, the black people just sort of looked down at the floor, and the white people just ignored it. I was speechless....in my life, even having worked in Los Angeles with some pretty strong racially tense situations, I never saw it just tolerated in a daily life setting like this....seeing that it appeared "normal" I was just disgusted and put down my stuff and walked out, holding the door for the woman on her way out.
I would like to think this was just completely a huge anomaly and that people aren't still subjecting people to this type of treatment. Am I right, or am I wrong? Is it truly that bad in Indianapolis?
Troll....if this had happened, the media would STILL be all over it....
Troll....if this had happened, the media would STILL be all over it....
In order for the media to have the slightest interest in a story it has to meet one of the 10 elements of news (Timeliness, Proximity, Consequence, Prominence, Drama, Oddity, Conflict, Emotion, Sex or Progress. The more elements combined the more newsworthy a story is. A couple of no name jack behinds talking smack don't quite meet a news story threshold. However if you add an element of prominence to that smack talking then voila ... NEWS. Big names make big news.
I know what I'm about to say is an n=1 type of thing and that this type of dialogue will continue because if for no other reason, race is and will always be a hot button topic in America, no matter what state you live in. I'm a black female who's lived in Indianapolis most of my life; however, I did go to college in Greencastle, and medical school in Antigua which in concordance to the curriculum led to me to doing my clinical rotations over 2.5 years between Detroit, Chicago, and Brooklyn, NY. So I'm glad that I have had a chance to live for an extended period of time in other places. Although, in spite of what Indianapolis appears to be or not to be, I love it here, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else unless my career takes me there. And my end goal is to one day hopefully practice or go into full time research here in Indianapolis.
With that being said, I think we have to clarify two terms here. Prejudice is a 'preconceived opinion not based on reason or actual experience; bias, partiality' (Hoyt, 2012, pg 225). Racism is 'the belief that all members of a purposed race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or other races. Racism is a particular form of prejudice defined by preconceived erroneous beliefs about race and members of racial groups' (Hoyt, 2012, pg. 225). Some believe that racism is essentially prejudice plus power, and if another race does not or is not in a position to hold power over another, people of that race cannot be racist. I'm not saying I subscribe to that theory, but there are many people who do. In my short 29 years (I'm not as seasoned on others who have posted here), I have experienced prejudice. However, I didn't encounter it throughout the whole city. I went to a private Christian school on the north side from K - 12. Predominately white, as in over 95%. Most of the students lived in Hamilton county, many of whom said the only time they go past 96th street is to come to school (or to the O'Charleys in Glendale before home games). However there was a good amount of us who lived in Marion county, mostly on the east and south sides.
From K - 11th grade, I'd say I heard some racial comment or joke which was either said directly to me or just in front of everyone for shock factor. In 5th grade I was reading the biography of Martin Luther King Jr. in class and girl came up to me and said her parents told her he was a bad man and many people died senselessly because he wouldn't keep his mouth shut. In 10th grade, an older boy who was holding a stick figure said to me, "hey, if I painted this black and hung it from a rope would you be mad at me? Haha. You know my granddad was in the KKK!". And in 11th grade, another older boy said to me "you know, the only reason black people aren't in our history books is because they didn't do anything". Well at least our English teacher put a stop to that by replying "look, you about Christopher Columbus. That was a white man. You learn about Martin Luther King. That was a black man. Let's end this conversation now". Funny enough, that same teacher's brother, who was also an English teacher made a joke during the 2000 election by holding up a picture of a happy white baby and a crying black baby, as they were to represent the republican party and democratic party respectively. There were so many jokes and taunts I heard over the course of 12 years for me to mention. Although maybe I was an easy target because I was on the hefty side (I was teased for that too) and I just wasn't quick enough on the come backs. The few black kids that did go to my school (most usually left by high school) didn't get teased as much as I did. Heck, even one of my best friends at the time told a joke she heard from her cousins in Kentucky, "man it's great that we get Martin Luther King day off from school, now if we could kill 4 more blacks, we'd get a whole week off!".
Yeah I know by now you're all wondering "that's awful", "why would she repeat all this stuff online?", and of course, "why in the world did your parents send you there and why did you stay?" Well yes, these were awful things but unfortunately kids get teased and/or bullied in school all the time. And honestly, compared to what I've seen other kids go through, I don't even put this on the same level and consider this minuscule in comparison to what kids are going through now. Well, I repeated it online, because this is the conversation of the hour (or days). And most importantly, I stayed because I had gotten used to the system there and my friends, I didn't feel I would have a good experience at a different school, and unfortunately, I had let myself become desensitized. At the time, I went and still go to a traditional, predominately black, missionary baptist church. And when I was young, I felt ostracized and as if I didn't fit in with the youth there. Actually, I was told I didn't fit in because of the way I talked, my demeanor, and apparently since I was quicker to answering Bible questions, I must've thought I was smarter than them, at least that's what the kids at my church told me. So from this I developed my own prejudice. I said to myself, if this is how I'm going to be treated by my own race, what good would it do to go to a larger school where more of my race is at.
Anyway, thank God for college because, as it does for most 18 year olds, it opened my eyes. I became un-desensitized (I know it's not a word) to racial remarks. Though my previous experiences helped me put into context the background that people may have when making certain remarks and the patience to say 'I know you're joking but be careful about what you say and how you say it because it could be perceived by another group of people differently.' I also came to realize that obviously not all black people are the same, I would've been fine at a larger high school, if not for missing my friends, and I probably would have been exposed to a group of more open-minded white people. Now college wasn't all peachy keen. During my sophomore year, a few knuckleheads in town went around shouting racial and homophobic slurs at minority students and one group of kids almost tried to run some students off the road while shouting the n-word at them. And there were a few students who made bonehead decisions too (like saying the n-word, wearing brown face when dressing up for halloween, and a group of guys who dressed up like the Duke lacrosse team and stated all they were missing was a black stripper). But you know what, people make boneheaded decisions in college, some learn from it, some don't.
I said all that to say this. Is there a certain level of prejudice still here in Indianapolis? Yes. However I do believe my experience would have been different and probably better if I went to a different high school, whether it was Cathedral, Arlington, or even a larger Christian school. I never told my parents about those things until I got older because I didn't want them to overreact, and I didn't want to leave the school. That was in part do to my own misconceptions about other races and my own race. Did the people I encountered learn these things from older generations in their families? Yes, of course they did. But just like I grew up after high school and through college and continue to grow, so did most of the kids I went to school with. As people grow up and learn and go through different experiences, it has a way of changing their perspective. There is a growing change in the city. There will always be prejudice, but I don't think it's a fair assessment of where Indianapolis is today to say it's rampant. Now keep in mind, I'm just 29. I've heard stories from minorities older than me of being denied jobs for which they attribute to their race. And I'm not disputing that it doesn't happen. However, we can't dismiss where the city has come today. From living in other cities, people my age are shocked when I discuss comments made towards me in high school and the experiences that happened in college. People in those cities have said though they believe that prejudice still exist in an institutionalized manner in their cities and most definitely, in the more rural areas of their states.
I know this was a long post, but hey, the thread is already 17 pages long. It's this type of dialogue that keeps people talking and perhaps realizing that we don't live in a post-racial America. Not yet, and I'm not sure if we ever will. I know I love Indianapolis. Like I said, I plan on living here, even if I have to leave for a while for my career, my hope is to come back and raise my family here. The growth and change that has occurred within the city is tremendous from what my parents say when comparing it when they were younger to where it is now. And I see that. I also am a firm believer that you don't affect change by leaving. Whether or not constructive dialogue can take place on a forum, eh, it can and sometimes it can't. But it will take people from different perspectives coming together and talking about these issues to continue the change within our city for the better. Like I said, this is just my opinion on race and Indianapolis, from what I've experienced and not experienced in my time here.
I know what I'm about to say is an n=1 type of thing and that this type of dialogue will continue because if for no other reason, race is and will always be a hot button topic in America, no matter what state you live in. I'm a black female who's lived in Indianapolis most of my life; however, I did go to college in Greencastle, and medical school in Antigua which in concordance to the curriculum led to me to doing my clinical rotations over 2.5 years between Detroit, Chicago, and Brooklyn, NY. So I'm glad that I have had a chance to live for an extended period of time in other places. Although, in spite of what Indianapolis appears to be or not to be, I love it here, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else unless my career takes me there. And my end goal is to one day hopefully practice or go into full time research here in Indianapolis.
With that being said, I think we have to clarify two terms here. Prejudice is a 'preconceived opinion not based on reason or actual experience; bias, partiality' (Hoyt, 2012, pg 225). Racism is 'the belief that all members of a purposed race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or other races. Racism is a particular form of prejudice defined by preconceived erroneous beliefs about race and members of racial groups' (Hoyt, 2012, pg. 225). Some believe that racism is essentially prejudice plus power, and if another race does not or is not in a position to hold power over another, people of that race cannot be racist. I'm not saying I subscribe to that theory, but there are many people who do. In my short 29 years (I'm not as seasoned on others who have posted here), I have experienced prejudice. However, I didn't encounter it throughout the whole city. I went to a private Christian school on the north side from K - 12. Predominately white, as in over 95%. Most of the students lived in Hamilton county, many of whom said the only time they go past 96th street is to come to school (or to the O'Charleys in Glendale before home games). However there was a good amount of us who lived in Marion county, mostly on the east and south sides.
From K - 11th grade, I'd say I heard some racial comment or joke which was either said directly to me or just in front of everyone for shock factor. In 5th grade I was reading the biography of Martin Luther King Jr. in class and girl came up to me and said her parents told her he was a bad man and many people died senselessly because he wouldn't keep his mouth shut. In 10th grade, an older boy who was holding a stick figure said to me, "hey, if I painted this black and hung it from a rope would you be mad at me? Haha. You know my granddad was in the KKK!". And in 11th grade, another older boy said to me "you know, the only reason black people aren't in our history books is because they didn't do anything". Well at least our English teacher put a stop to that by replying "look, you about Christopher Columbus. That was a white man. You learn about Martin Luther King. That was a black man. Let's end this conversation now". Funny enough, that same teacher's brother, who was also an English teacher made a joke during the 2000 election by holding up a picture of a happy white baby and a crying black baby, as they were to represent the republican party and democratic party respectively. There were so many jokes and taunts I heard over the course of 12 years for me to mention. Although maybe I was an easy target because I was on the hefty side (I was teased for that too) and I just wasn't quick enough on the come backs. The few black kids that did go to my school (most usually left by high school) didn't get teased as much as I did. Heck, even one of my best friends at the time told a joke she heard from her cousins in Kentucky, "man it's great that we get Martin Luther King day off from school, now if we could kill 4 more blacks, we'd get a whole week off!".
Yeah I know by now you're all wondering "that's awful", "why would she repeat all this stuff online?", and of course, "why in the world did your parents send you there and why did you stay?" Well yes, these were awful things but unfortunately kids get teased and/or bullied in school all the time. And honestly, compared to what I've seen other kids go through, I don't even put this on the same level and consider this minuscule in comparison to what kids are going through now. Well, I repeated it online, because this is the conversation of the hour (or days). And most importantly, I stayed because I had gotten used to the system there and my friends, I didn't feel I would have a good experience at a different school, and unfortunately, I had let myself become desensitized. At the time, I went and still go to a traditional, predominately black, missionary baptist church. And when I was young, I felt ostracized and as if I didn't fit in with the youth there. Actually, I was told I didn't fit in because of the way I talked, my demeanor, and apparently since I was quicker to answering Bible questions, I must've thought I was smarter than them, at least that's what the kids at my church told me. So from this I developed my own prejudice. I said to myself, if this is how I'm going to be treated by my own race, what good would it do to go to a larger school where more of my race is at.
Anyway, thank God for college because, as it does for most 18 year olds, it opened my eyes. I became un-desensitized (I know it's not a word) to racial remarks. Though my previous experiences helped me put into context the background that people may have when making certain remarks and the patience to say 'I know you're joking but be careful about what you say and how you say it because it could be perceived by another group of people differently.' I also came to realize that obviously not all black people are the same, I would've been fine at a larger high school, if not for missing my friends, and I probably would have been exposed to a group of more open-minded white people. Now college wasn't all peachy keen. During my sophomore year, a few knuckleheads in town went around shouting racial and homophobic slurs at minority students and one group of kids almost tried to run some students off the road while shouting the n-word at them. And there were a few students who made bonehead decisions too (like saying the n-word, wearing brown face when dressing up for halloween, and a group of guys who dressed up like the Duke lacrosse team and stated all they were missing was a black stripper). But you know what, people make boneheaded decisions in college, some learn from it, some don't.
I said all that to say this. Is there a certain level of prejudice still here in Indianapolis? Yes. However I do believe my experience would have been different and probably better if I went to a different high school, whether it was Cathedral, Arlington, or even a larger Christian school. I never told my parents about those things until I got older because I didn't want them to overreact, and I didn't want to leave the school. That was in part do to my own misconceptions about other races and my own race. Did the people I encountered learn these things from older generations in their families? Yes, of course they did. But just like I grew up after high school and through college and continue to grow, so did most of the kids I went to school with. As people grow up and learn and go through different experiences, it has a way of changing their perspective. There is a growing change in the city. There will always be prejudice, but I don't think it's a fair assessment of where Indianapolis is today to say it's rampant. Now keep in mind, I'm just 29. I've heard stories from minorities older than me of being denied jobs for which they attribute to their race. And I'm not disputing that it doesn't happen. However, we can't dismiss where the city has come today. From living in other cities, people my age are shocked when I discuss comments made towards me in high school and the experiences that happened in college. People in those cities have said though they believe that prejudice still exist in an institutionalized manner in their cities and most definitely, in the more rural areas of their states.
I know this was a long post, but hey, the thread is already 17 pages long. It's this type of dialogue that keeps people talking and perhaps realizing that we don't live in a post-racial America. Not yet, and I'm not sure if we ever will. I know I love Indianapolis. Like I said, I plan on living here, even if I have to leave for a while for my career, my hope is to come back and raise my family here. The growth and change that has occurred within the city is tremendous from what my parents say when comparing it when they were younger to where it is now. And I see that. I also am a firm believer that you don't affect change by leaving. Whether or not constructive dialogue can take place on a forum, eh, it can and sometimes it can't. But it will take people from different perspectives coming together and talking about these issues to continue the change within our city for the better. Like I said, this is just my opinion on race and Indianapolis, from what I've experienced and not experienced in my time here.
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