Ca Deficit & The Illegals (green card, driver's license, hiring illegals, unemployment benefits)

[RedJacket]

Education. Prisons. Healthcare. Those three items being utilized by illegals cost CA, and other states, billions of dollars each and every year.

I don't think a cheaper BLT is a smart financial trade off.

[ndfmnlf]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

That's where the concept of citizenship comes in--a concept that seems lost on you. People who are born here legally are entitled to such benefits.

Now, I'll grant you, I don't think we can afford to pay these benefits (mainly SS & Medicare) to our own citizens for too much longer (at least not at current benefit levels). We certainly can't afford to pay social benefits to people who come here illegally along with any children they have.

Define citizenship.

There was a time when black slaves were not considered US citizens. It took almost 100 years from the founding of this country before slaves were granted citizenship through the 14th amendment, even though many of them were born here and worked their a$$e$ off to feed their masters and built the infrastructure of this country.

The point being, citizenship is a fluid concept. Laws change. Constitutions get amended. The criteria for citizenship can be expanded. Illegal aliens can be granted amnesty and turned into US citizens so they can start paying taxes.

[hsw]

Legalize all drugs&prostitution and tax 'em: will cut much of law enfcmt and prison costs

Fire ~40% of gvt workers (AKA "parasites"): likely won't notice a drop in productivity (hell, may even have smoother roads and better public schools: can't get any worse)

Major SV tech cos. fired ~10% of their work forces in recent recession and most cos. are more profitable than ever and have accumulated many billions in cash: plenty of unproductive, overpaid workers in SV, let alone in gubberment

Make employment of illegals entail jail time and massive fines for any employer (incl the much revered "small businessman"): kill the economic incentive to enter US illegally

Jobs and people and money tend to move wherever is most efficient in terms of costs, taxes, QOL, etc...whether it's CA or TX or China or India....economic freedom sorts it all out as long as we have economically rational laws which are enforced

[ndfmnlf]

Originally Posted by hsw

Legalize all drugs&prostitution and tax 'em: will cut much of law enfcmt and prison costs

You can also legalize all illegal aliens and tax them. Same logic there.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

Not good enough. We need to see your birth certificate. Not the copy, but the original.

Are you a troll or a retard? Which one is it?

[BrazosJaime]

After reading these post I realize why California is in the hole for 20 billion dollars.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

Define citizenship.

There was a time when black slaves were not considered US citizens. It took almost 100 years from the founding of this country before slaves were granted citizenship through the 14th amendment, even though many of them were born here and worked their a$$e$ off to feed their masters and built the infrastructure of this country.

The point being, citizenship is a fluid concept. Laws change. Constitutions get amended. The criteria for citizenship can be expanded. Illegal aliens can be granted amnesty and turned into US citizens so they can start paying taxes.

Don't you dare compare someone's choice to come here of their own will and break the goddamn law to slavery .

Yeah, someone forcefully brought here to be the personal SLAVE of someone is equivalent to someone who makes a CHOICE and uses their own will to come to a country.. Break their laws.. FOR THEIR OWN Benefit.

GTFO here w/ that ... Does anyone go to school anymore? All i hear from defenders of this Law breaking practice is a bunch of logical fallacies . (i.e - appeal to emotion) and a bunch of half arsed relative comparisons...

I find the idiotic comments that people make sometimes to be scarier than some horror movies I have seen. The fact that they actually think they are saying something logical is even worse

[yeahthatguy]

Further, while we are on the topic of illegals and these idiot comments 'paper please', let me point out CAlifornia's laws just in case the clowns letting crap fall out their mouths didn't know them :

1) California Education Code prohibits illegals in public colleges: "66010.8. (a) No public institution of postsecondary education shall admit, enroll, or permit the attendance of any person who is not a citizen of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a
permanent resident in the United States, or a person who is otherwise authorized under federal law to be present in the United States."
Article 2. Comprehensive Mission Statement - Sections 66010.1-66010.8 - California Education Code - California Code :: Justia

2) CA Cops Must Check Citizenship: Penal Code: 834b(1): "(1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding documentation to indicate his or her legal status."
CHAPTER 5. ARREST, BY WHOM AND HOW MADE - Sections 833-851.90 - California Penal Code - California Code :: Justia

[yeahthatguy]

Further... So we are clear.. When you are unemployed.. There is no such thing as : Jobs that American's dont want to work. We have 13% unemployment in california :
Google - public data

Don't tell me there are jobs that Americans don't want to work and that's why we need Mexican immigrants to pick carrots, etc. I have my Masters in Electrical and Computer Engineering and I'd scrub toilets and bag groceries if necessary to secure food/water/shelter.....

What we need to do is kick illegal immigrants out.. Phase out unemployment and tell Lazy arse Americans to do the jobs that are 'beneath them'. As for this theory that prices will be higher... HEllo .. what about taxes .. explain to me how paying someone unemployment for 2 years to do nothing and paying an illegal immigrant below legal wage = Less money than paying the american minimum wage and not giving them unemployment... It would seem as though you people need a remedial lesson in math. Further, lets talk about debt/deficits. If you have any knowledge on how finance works, you'd understand that debt comes w/ interest .. So lets slap that on there too...

Lets add in some 1.6 million college graduates that will be added to the jobless pool this year : College Grads Flood U.S. Labor Market With Diminished Prospects - Bloomberg.com
"Ten months after graduating from Ohio State University with a civil-engineering degree and three internships, Matt Grant finally has a job -- as a banquet waiter at a Clarion Inn near Akron, Ohio. " <- that's what I call a hard working American

Lets talk about ending this idiot philosophy in America of entitlement. I come from a household where neither parent had a college degree.. My dad worked 3-4 jobs.. My dad said to me everyday.. you don't want to live like me .. you don't want your kids to go through what you did.. be better than me son.. And I made it my life's goal to go to college... There was no backup.. It was either do it yourself or end up poor. And my dad never accepted welfare or any other subsidies. He promoted : An honest day's work for an honest day's pay.. He promoted having some dignity about yourself. And most of all, he said.. son, when you make it.. Understand.. Unto those who much is given, much is expected. So I give back... I give back not by giving money out recklessly... If I were in power, I would not 'give back' by taxing productive people to just hand it away to unproductive.. I would give back by being a leader.. When necessary aiding those and putting them on a platform that they can provide for themselves... Empowering people .. not making them dependent ..

So man screw all this liberal nonsense.. Screw all this appeal to emotion.. Screw all of this entitlement crap.. You are granted life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ... Just by being in this country you are privledged and afforded something that many people in the world even w/ $$$ don't have... What you do w/ it after that is up to you .. And there is no job beneath any american. Sustained entitlements and unemployment/etc make Americans lazy and feel that they are entitled .. And it results in deficits that you pay back w/ interest.. Interest on that debt can only be paid back if you get a return on what the principle above the annual interest. Tell me wtf kind of return do you get for giving someone money w/o requesting any work?

This country and other countries in the world are made great by an understanding.. that .. in order to have a good life.. you have to work for it .. When people get that.. they cut out the idiocy.. They WILL find work .. if they can't find it .. they will create it ... This goes for both those at the top and bottom who take in more than they receive....

This hand holding is going to be America's downfall.. These idiotic policies based on appeal to emotion and ad hominem attacks will result in the firming of results that lead to our downfall .. And sadly there is nothing the educated/hard working people can do about it. you have enough leeching selfish bums at the bottom tier as you have in the top and they are both serving to rot the hardworking/smart working mid tier at its core.

IF you want to give.. THen give.. it's called charity and everyone should do it..
Morons have become the majority in America. They infect the core of our govt. local/state/federal .. They infect the core of our voting base.. both amongst republicans/democrats ... and in a democracy .. when that happens .. Idiot sh*t results... I have long since given up as this is just the endstate/endgame.

Those of intelligence would serve themselves best to secure themselves and their living.. Don't work beyond a certain level as it will just be taxed away and giving to morons or taken away by wallstreet... Time is money and money is time .. Enjoy your life and let the monkeys have their way w/ trashing this place. Only when it turns into a pile of crap will they get it.. BUt hey, maybe even then, they wont get it... Probably because they are just that dumb. They wont realize the overarching role they played in making it so.

I will borrow one from the good ol' book on this :
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his foolishness (Proverbs 26:11)

[wehotex]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

Sure. Make sure those rules apply to you as well. Unless you think you're special.

If illegals become legal residents or US citizens and pay taxes, then they should receive the social services they're paying for.

why is that? paying the taxes without sucking up the resources should be the price that they pay to become citizens of this country if that is truly what they wish to do.