Ca Deficit & The Illegals (millionaire, illegal immigration, regular, Spanish)
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Come now. You know better than that. You certainly know at least one person who just doesn't want to do hard work.
There are people out there right now who would rather sit on a corner and hold up a sign waiting for handouts than to do menial labor. I can think of four people off the top of my head who are perfectly healthy human beings, capable of working jobs, where I can think of at least 20 positions they could get into, but they don't want to do the work. Hell, one of them used to work at Burger King yet he doesn't want to go back and work for them again even though they guaranteed he would be rehired on the spot. He feels he's "too good" to work there.
Said person has been unemployed for over 10 years. And he is so by his own choice.
As i stated 500 times. CUT GOVT. ASsistance and subsidies for these clowns.. kick out the immigrants and let supply and demand work .. F*CK MAN .. I feel like I am talking to idiots
Hey genius..... answer the question I asked you earlier. Do you think anchor babies who came here involuntarily are analogous to the slaves brought here involuntarily from Africa? Should anchor babies be accorded the full rights of American citizenship just as black slaves were accorded those rights under the 14th amendment?
Since you have not an ounce of reasoning/logic in your head.. Let restate teh case :
Case #1 : A group of Americans go over to country A .. Take their people under force and bring them to the united states to work as slaves. they then have them bred like cattle to produce more slaves ... those bred children were by distributive property forced here too. They were sold as cattle at auctions to slave owners..
How in the f*ck do you make an analogy to that and laws passed to exact fairness to these people in case #1 to someone WHO did not arrive here by force.. Who in fact came here on their own will .. broke our goddamn laws and then decided to take further advantage of our system by willfully breeding children like rabbits and drain our social services ..
You answer my ?... how the hell do you draw a parallel between the two?
ONe happened by force.. the offspring by distributive property were under force...
The other was a willful decision against U.S LAW and their babies were willfully bred under the pretext of trying to take advantage of our social services .....
Are you insane?
So, it case i wasn't clear the first time.. NO .. ANCHOR BABIES AND THEIR ILLEGAL CRIMINAL PARENTS SHOULD BE KICKED OUTTA HERE
Illegal aliens will work job @ $5/hr
American citizens per minimum wage will only work the job @ $8/hr.
There are 10 illegal immigrants.
10 American citizens.
Case #1 :
10 American citizens don't work the job and get the equiv. of 1/2 their salary in unemployment @ a rate of $4/hr
Assuming 8hr work day 48 weeks of work per year : $7680 outlay w/ no production
* 10 americans
Net non-productive outlay : $76,800
--------
10 Illegal Immigrants work the jobs @ rate of $5/hr .. Assuming 8 hour work day and 48 weeks of work :
$9600 * 10 illegals
Net productive outlay : $96,000
--------
Total (rough) expense for 10 productive jobs : $76,800+ $96,000= $172,800
Case #2 :
10 Americans work the job @ CA minmum wage of $8/hr , 8 hour day , 48 weeks of work for year : $15360 per person
* 10 Americans = $153,600
----------------------------
Thus, before we get into the drain that illegal immigrants put on hospitcals, social services .. How much their kids
cost to educate .. The average is $9,000 per pupil .. You already have $19,000 disparity per 10 people ...
Thus : $1,900/per illegal immigrant cost incurred w/ no net benefit to production.. (assuming the otherwise workign american is now unemployed) ..
Which is the case and there are some
In April, the number of unemployed persons was 15.3 million .. unemployed
S : http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Number of illegals back in 07/08 : ~11 million
As you add on other costs :
> Costs for medical care
> Costs for anchor baby education
> Social services drain, etc ...
The total per illegal grows more and more ...
The above analysis assumes the job the unemployed American doesn't have is taken by an illegal immigrant.
If unemployement is ended and all illegal immigrants were kicked out .. Simply supply and demand dictates Americans would
work those "unwanted" jobs.
Thus using a crude example case and basic math .. It is obvious there is no net benefit to having millions of illegal immigrants in the u.s working below minimum wage at a time w/ such high unemployment.
If unemployment were not so high.. You understand obviously through basic math that this case/analysis would be different.
Since you have not an ounce of reasoning/logic in your head.. Let restate teh case :
Case #1 : A group of Americans go over to country A .. Take their people under force and bring them to the united states to work as slaves. they then have them bred like cattle to produce more slaves ... those bred children were by distributive property forced here too. They were sold as cattle at auctions to slave owners..
How in the f*ck do you make an analogy to that and laws passed to exact fairness to these people in case #1 to someone WHO did not arrive here by force.. Who in fact came here on their own will .. broke our goddamn laws and then decided to take further advantage of our system by willfully breeding children like rabbits and drain our social services ..
You answer my ?... how the hell do you draw a parallel between the two?
ONe happened by force.. the offspring by distributive property were under force...
The other was a willful decision against U.S LAW and their babies were willfully bred under the pretext of trying to take advantage of our social services .....
Are you insane?
So, it case i wasn't clear the first time.. NO .. ANCHOR BABIES AND THEIR ILLEGAL CRIMINAL PARENTS SHOULD BE KICKED OUTTA HERE
Ahhh.....nice example of double standard there. Anchor babies who had no control over their births, are in the US involuntarily, should be kicked out of the country.....while slaves and their offspring can enjoy US citizenship. What's the difference?
The difference lies in the fact that the parents of the anchor babies wanted to come to the US. They wanted to work, be productive members of American society. Meanwhile, the African slaves didn't really want to come here to work. But they were forced to.
Who then is more deserving of becoming a citizen of this great country of ours? The person who willfully came here to work (i.e. has a great work ethic), or the person who had to be carted off kicking and screaming, who had to be lashed repeatedly so he will work? My vote goes to the person with the great work ethic. And since personality traits are inherited, I vote for his anchor babies to become citizens as well.
As i stated 500 times. CUT GOVT. ASsistance and subsidies for these clowns.. kick out the immigrants and let supply and demand work .. F*CK MAN .. I feel like I am talking to idiots
I'm not disagreeing with your concept (despite the fact that you practiced selective reading - vintage CD - and got pissy instead of actually reading what I wrote). I'm simply rebutting your previous statement that
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy
.....There is no such thing as : Jobs that American's dont want to work.
Because it's a false statement. THERE ARE jobs that certain Americans refuse to work.
Case #1 :
10 American citizens don't work the job and get the equiv. of 1/2 their salary in unemployment @ a rate of $4/hr
Assuming 8hr work day 48 weeks of work per year : $7680 outlay w/ no production
* 10 americans
Net non-productive outlay : $76,800
--------
10 Illegal Immigrants work the jobs @ rate of $5/hr .. Assuming 8 hour work day and 48 weeks of work :
$9600 * 10 illegals
Net productive outlay : $96,000
--------
Total (rough) expense for 10 productive jobs : $76,800+ $96,000= $172,800
Case #2 :
10 Americans work the job @ CA minmum wage of $8/hr , 8 hour day , 48 weeks of work for year : $15360 per person
* 10 Americans = $153,600
The fallacy here is that you think Americans and illegals compete for the same jobs. Classic fail. Do illegals compete with Americans for jobs in banking, tech, retail, manufacturing, government, education, health care? Several weeks ago, our group hired 3 new doctors, each being paid $200K a year. They were all illegals from Mexico....none of them spoke a word of English....they all had anchor babies in tow. We hired them in lieu of the greedy American citizens who wanted $201K apiece.
You said your dad who worked for a bank was fired. Was his job taken away by an illegal? Did this illegal get $4/hr?
Quote:
----------------------------
Thus, before we get into the drain that illegal immigrants put on hospitcals, social services .. How much their kids
cost to educate .
Are you serious? You mean to say American citizens don't get sick and don't use social services? And if the illegals are the ones who have the jobs (remember, they stole those jobs from citizens), then they are paying for these social services, while the unemployed Americans like your dad are the ones sucking the system dry.
Quote:
The above analysis assumes the job the unemployed American doesn't have is taken by an illegal immigrant.
Yeah right. 3 American doctors are unemployed because our group decided to hire 3 illegal non-English speaking Mexicans in their stead.
Quote:
If unemployement is ended and all illegal immigrants were kicked out .. Simply supply and demand dictates Americans would
work those "unwanted" jobs.
The 3 unemployed American doctors are now scouring the vegetable farms of CA for jobs.
Since the illegals work, eat, and live in CA, their money gets spent in CA and CA therefore benefits from it. Do you think illegals cross the border back to Mexico to buy lunch there, then come back to the US after their lunch break to their job they allegedly stole from you?
I see a lot of field workers buying burritos from the local truck for lunch/dinner. They don't go to Mortons or Ruth Chris, be real for once.
And as far as illegals stealing jobs is concerned, I've heard it said that they are lazy bums who don't work. They are leeches of the welfare system, they sit on their butts watching TV the whole day, breeding anchor babies, collecting food stamps....yada yada....
Excuse me? Can you guys not even get your story straight? On one corner of your mouth, you say illegals steal your jobs. On the other corner, you say they are lazy bums who don't work. So which is it? Do illegals work, or don't they?
Both. Either way we don't need them.
Most important of all, who says you are entitled to a job? Where does it say in the US constitution that having a job is a basic right of an American citizen?
No one. We have enough trouble with our large lower socioeconomic class we don't need other people who are illegal to add to it.
Quote:
What proportion of their earnings do they send to Mexico and what proportion do they spend locally in CA? Since you are the one making the assertion that billions are transferred to Mexico, you provide the data.
I'd say they spend as little as possible. That's why they will sleep 10 to a room buy a $200 car, don't have insurance, buy clothes at the flea market, etc.
Also, show us how illegal Mexicans are able to ship money back to Mexico. Do they stuff dollar bills inside brown envelopes and slip these across the border? Are you so naive as to believe that they actually risk losing their money that way?
Ever heard of Western Union?
Or do they remit the money through bank to bank transfers? And if they do that, doesn't the bank skim off a fee for the transaction? Since these banks are presumably on US soil (American banks), don't they pay taxes on the income generated from these fees? Don't these taxes get recirculated back to the US Treasury, which then puts the money back out to the US economy in the normal course maintaining monetary policy?
Again, be real, how much does this really help.
I've decided you are either here to get everyone mad by inciting a internet arguement or just one of the most naive and incompetent person I have ever dealt with. Either way I'm sorry for you.
Because it's a false statement. THERE ARE jobs that certain Americans refuse to work.
Very true. A lot of people refuse to do a lot of jobs. We have allowed our society to permit this behavior by just "oh an illegal will do it for spare change." That has to stop.
There is way too many problems with our legal citizens for us to include and add the illegal immigrants to our mix. We need to cut off our dead and diseased branches which our killing our society, ie illegal immigrants for a start.
I'm not disagreeing with your concept (despite the fact that you practiced selective reading - vintage CD - and got pissy instead of actually reading what I wrote). I'm simply rebutting your previous statement that
Because it's a false statement. THERE ARE jobs that certain Americans refuse to work.
Now .. lets try and put it into context of my overarching point ...
Which is .. Supply and demand. w/ unemployment @ 13% in california .. there is no such thing as jobs that american's don't want to work... that was the context right? So if you understand the point i am making ..it is one of supply/demand .. I don't want to work @ all actually either ... most people don't .. but i HAVE to .. to eat ..
So, why don't you also not practice selective reading
The fallacy here is that you think Americans and illegals compete for the same jobs. Classic fail. Do illegals compete with Americans for jobs in banking, tech, retail, manufacturing, government, education, health care? Several weeks ago, our group hired 3 new doctors, each being paid $200K a year. They were all illegals from Mexico....none of them spoke a word of English....they all had anchor babies in tow. We hired them in lieu of the greedy American citizens who wanted $201K apiece.
You said your dad who worked for a bank was fired. Was his job taken away by an illegal? Did this illegal get $4/hr?
Are you serious? You mean to say American citizens don't get sick and don't use social services? And if the illegals are the ones who have the jobs (remember, they stole those jobs from citizens), then they are paying for these social services, while the unemployed Americans like your dad are the ones sucking the system dry.
Yeah right. 3 American doctors are unemployed because our group decided to hire 3 illegal non-English speaking Mexicans in their stead.
The 3 unemployed American doctors are now scouring the vegetable farms of CA for jobs.
DUde... you're a moron .. that's just what it is .. if you look at the example .. I stated it was specific to California's latest stated minimum wage figure.. History of California Minimum Wage $8/hour
I specifically gave an example of the most low skilled job which an illegal immigrant is taking from those that are unemployed. Further, I stated almost twice that the example assumes the job would otherwise be occupied by the unemployed which isn't a stretch as most of those who are unemployed are from low income backgrounds and unskilled labor jobs. And when such jokers aren't working they are sucking from the teet of govt. which results in unproductive outlays... you are paying them to just sit around and do nothing.... Thus for every illegal who is here .. you pay : Lessor of a wage (illegal) + compensation to lazy arse american to sit on his behind .. that = more money than paying an american minimum wage.
As for necessity .. I again reiterate that I have a Masters degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering... If I lost my job, I have to eat right? I'd take any job : cleaning toilets/bagging groceries/anything to get by.
Every American should be of this mindset and they would be if they weren't coddled by 2 years of unemployment and entitlements. Such things are going to destroy this nation.
Everyone likes to yap about the work ethic of immigrants.. they have it because they are hungry for it ... Americans once were too until bloated social services made it a right to be able to sit around on their collective fat arses.
I grew up in a neighborhood like this and thought it was deplorable.
And i have even told my unemployed ex-banker father he should do the same as opposed to leaning on a crutch for over 2 years now...
Listen man. I am trying to keep it real and honest. I am not trying to make a biased point here. If we can try to work together at getting at the truth of the matter that's fine. But don't sit here trying to twist my points....
You went to the total extreme unreality that high skilled people are getting their jobs taken by low skilled illegal immigrants.. Come on dude .. seriously ? Because that's what I am trying to try to say when I make a detailed example that focuses on salaries of $8/hr (Ca's minimum wage) ... I really want to know .. like .. what's your deal dude ? Are you just trying to disagree w/ me on purpose? WTF
If anyone would like to rebut the example I made feel free.. I am open and willing to accept that I am wrong. It was a very crude/basic example .. I am not trying to write a report here .. but lets be realistic
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 05-21-2010 at 08:54 AM..
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