Ca Deficit & The Illegals (Palestinian, Republicans, Democrats, education system)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
DUde... you're a moron .. that's just what it is .. if you look at the example .. I stated it was specific to California's latest stated minimum wage figure.. History of California Minimum Wage
I'm done w/ you .. you just see things in the way you want to see them and engage in utter idiocy to try to back your points. Were done here
Was your dad fired by the bank because his job was taken over by an illegal alien?
Your silly math exercise collapses because it is premised on your faulty assumption that Americans and illegals are competing for the same jobs.
Your stupid assertion that if illegals are not here, their jobs picking apples will be easily taken over by the laid-off banker, attorney, sales clerk, etc.....and everything will be hunky dory in your imaginary full employment world where all Americans are entitled to have jobs as a birthright.
You need to go back to mowing lawns. And oh, tell your dad the right to have a job is not found in the US constitution.
"The difference lies in the fact that the parents of the anchor babies wanted to come to the US. They wanted to work, be productive members of American society. Meanwhile, the African slaves didn't really want to come here to work. But they were forced to." Really, we do all realize that a 3 year old did not make the choice, the problem is that the parents are taking advantage of America because we America lets them and now American can not afford it. If you Read this thread is full of examples like, "True. I know know someone who works in county social services. Babies don't get sent checks. Their illegal parents do. It is illegal for that social worker to report the family to INS. If they come to the country with 5 kids and the have one in the U.S., then 6 kids get benefits. I believe the 7th doesn't. A lot of illegal woman qualify by claiming to be single. But, they're actually married. The marriage was in Mexico. Husband lives somewhere else, waits 'till things get settled, and then moves in with his wife."
"Who then is more deserving of becoming a citizen of this great country of ours? The person who willfully came here to work (i.e. has a great work ethic), or the person who had to be carted off kicking and screaming, who had to be lashed repeatedly so he will work? My vote goes to the person with the great work ethic. And since personality traits are inherited, I vote for his anchor babies to become citizens as well." Does the fact that the parent illegally crossed a border with fake credentials to secure services to have even more babies that they need to feed with food stamps because they have not figured out that $10 an hour can not feed 5 children, mean they have a good trait to inherit. Most of my American friends have figured that out and many had 1 or 2 , not 5 on Americas Tab What about the trait of having large families through the anchor baby citizen who we have to pay to educate in the language they choose to speak? Being carted off to work in another country, well that is not a trait, it was a situation they were forced into,some way or another, of course they would become citizens, that one of the reasons for the Civil war. Many people were slaves, indentured servants, that has zero to do with illegal immigration. Those people were not taking services, they were providing labor, not getting food stamps and tutors, and by the way at that time our country needed people to build up the country,that is not the case at this point or it would not be called an immigration problem. My fathers father was a farmer in Hungary and poor crop performance forced him to come to PA legaly through a visa because at that time farmers were needed. He took his 8 children(farmers had alot of children to help on the farm) which he fed from his labor and sent them to school. They learnt English and were not tutored in Hungarian obviously. He went on to have more children who spoke American, served in the Army and created wealth. See really it is ok to be a laborer or farm worker, I never remember my father saying that his father was exploited working on a farm. I would think they were happy to have the oportunity to work, when his farm in hungary was not yeilding crops. He always told my brother and I( example 2 chldren that you are able to feed) , get a good education so you do not have to work with your hands, I want you to work with your mind. It worked, I have 4 children I am able to feed and teach my children the same. The traits that illegal's are passing on are take what you can, how ever you can, and they learn that from the preschool free breakfast lunch, dinner and afterschool program.If they wanted to instill good traits they would be only having the children they could feed, not having more to increase food stamp money, disability checks etc and would encourage their children to speak English, which would be a major start in improving relations not to mention stopping the money drain for dual language education.
Ahhh.....nice example of double standard there. Anchor babies who had no control over their births, are in the US involuntarily, should be kicked out of the country.....while slaves and their offspring can enjoy US citizenship. What's the difference?
The difference lies in the fact that the parents of the anchor babies wanted to come to the US. They wanted to work, be productive members of American society. Meanwhile, the African slaves didn't really want to come here to work. But they were forced to.
Who then is more deserving of becoming a citizen of this great country of ours? The person who willfully came here to work (i.e. has a great work ethic), or the person who had to be carted off kicking and screaming, who had to be lashed repeatedly so he will work? My vote goes to the person with the great work ethic. And since personality traits are inherited, I vote for his anchor babies to become citizens as well.
Hey, I want to be a millionaire ... I want to have 10 wives .. I want a boat. A yacht .. Except .. I want it and I am going to use my will to get it .. Oh b.t.w .. I am going to break about 100 laws to get it ... Produce some offspring and gift what I stole to them ... So hey, when you come for me.. You can't take it away.. it wasn't their choice .. they didn't know it was all stolen from someone else.. oh b.t.w - you can't send me to jail because I am their care provider.
Guerrilla warfare is irregular warfare, conflicts in which a small group of combatants uses military tactics, like ambushes and raids, to harass a larger and less-mobile traditional army.
The term means "little war" in Spanish, and the word, guerrilla, has been used to describe the concept since the 18th century, and perhaps earlier. Guerrilla warfare describes a conflict between armed civilians and a regular army, either foreign or domestic, where the armed civilians (the "irregulars") use tactics such as ambush, sabotage, the element of surprise, and extraordinary mobility to strike a vulnerable target and withdraw almost immediately.
..............
Listen dude .. people don't always play by the rules.. To play on people's 'emotions' .. to gain leverage.. combatants often time use human shields.. women and children are some of the best forms of it ... I am not saying we are at war and they are at war w/ us .. I am saying, put your emotions down for a bit and use your head and logic ....
A is taken by force from country 1 by person C and brought to country 2.
C applies force to (A)... F(A) and brings to 1.
A is bred to have babies A1,A2 so that they too can have force applied on them...
C applies force to force to A1, A2 .. F(A1) F(A2)
D comes to country 1 against the laws of the country by their own free will because its to their benefit.
D applies F to C ...F(C) in order to benefit themselves
D then has babies D1, D2 knowing that they are illegally in the country.
...
Both C and D applied force to a group of people .. They both are wrong.
To make things right, they should commit to a fix ...
In the case that C applied force to A, A1,A2 ... C decides the solution is to grant them citizenship and equal rights.
In the case that D,D1,D2 applied force on C, D decides .. to that even further force should be applied on C .
Yeah bro.. makes for a great analogy right there.
As for desire to be here/not be here.... That's after the fact analysis ...
To frame it ...
Case #1
You go and kidnap someone's young child from a foreign country and make them and their offspring sex slaves in your county for approx. a century.. their kids you make sex slaves to ... Suddenly you wake up one day and say .. that was very wrong ...
VS.
Case #2
Someone comes over here to be a prostitute in your country .. Breaks laws to get in .. Breaks laws working.. Has offspring... to the detriment of your country .....
In case #1, since you screwed them so bad they might not have the mental capacity to know at all what they want ... Whether even if they want to be in your country or not ... Given that, you owe them nor their children anything ... I did you guys wrong for over a century .. Sorry about it goodbye .. In case #2... hey.. they wanted to be here from the get go .. so their offspring are more deserving of consideration
Jeez dude. As it relates to Guerilla warfare .. they know exactly what the laws are and that they are breaking them. They come to know the consideration you give to their offspring .. And take effective action to exploit it.
Comparing the consideration that was given to slavery and their offspring to that of illegal immigrants (criminals) and their offspring is like comparing to apples to oranges. You can't.
One was done wrong to and exploited by this country by force.
The other exploited this country by their choice.
Their offspring were produce w/ different motives.
Leaving emotions out of the picture.. Oh think of the kids .. And weighing this out logically .. You don't give the same consideration to both.
Was your dad fired by the bank because his job was taken over by an illegal alien?
Your silly math exercise collapses because it is premised on your faulty assumption that Americans and illegals are competing for the same jobs.
Your stupid assertion that if illegals are not here, their jobs picking apples will be easily taken over by the laid-off banker, attorney, sales clerk, etc.....and everything will be hunky dory in your imaginary full employment world where all Americans are entitled to have jobs as a birthright.
You need to go back to mowing lawns. And oh, tell your dad the right to have a job is not found in the US constitution.
LOL, you're full of foolishness bro .. . I pointed out my dad to show that I make no exceptions to the rule even for family. I stated a low income job example using CA's minimum wage and stated twice it that the model assumes the otherwise unemployed low income individual would have been working the job the illegal would.. Given the statistics.. most people who are unemployed are low skilled labor .. So it is not a baseless assumption.
You instead decide to ignore the math .. $8/hour job .. person gets 1/2 that in unemployment .. illegal works it for $5/hour and reference my dad .. LOL .. Fortunately I don't have to get back to mowing lawns because I am have some economic/business sense and am a hard enough/smart enough worker such that I can give more productive output at a higher skilled level ...
you definitely crack me up though .. loving it
As for my dad, i would prefer he weren't on unemployment.. I have criticized the way he is handling his predicament. Family is family nonetheless and although I don't give him $$$ recklessly .. if he needed food/water/shelter..I'd give that too him. As it's not the govt.'s job to provide for my family (immediate/extended) ... However, beyond essentials .. he would not get that from me .. and even if I did give him essentials .. he would have to work for it.
But yeah dude .. keep up the good fight . You're making strides...
Excuse me if I have to go right now .. Need to close some in the money options and longs
"The difference lies in the fact that the parents of the anchor babies wanted to come to the US. They wanted to work, be productive members of American society. Meanwhile, the African slaves didn't really want to come here to work. But they were forced to." Really, we do all realize that a 3 year old did not make the choice, the problem is that the parents are taking advantage of America because we America lets them and now American can not afford it. If you Read this thread is full of examples like, "True. I know know someone who works in county social services. Babies don't get sent checks. Their illegal parents do. It is illegal for that social worker to report the family to INS. If they come to the country with 5 kids and the have one in the U.S., then 6 kids get benefits. I believe the 7th doesn't. A lot of illegal woman qualify by claiming to be single. But, they're actually married. The marriage was in Mexico. Husband lives somewhere else, waits 'till things get settled, and then moves in with his wife."
"Who then is more deserving of becoming a citizen of this great country of ours? The person who willfully came here to work (i.e. has a great work ethic), or the person who had to be carted off kicking and screaming, who had to be lashed repeatedly so he will work? My vote goes to the person with the great work ethic. And since personality traits are inherited, I vote for his anchor babies to become citizens as well." Does the fact that the parent illegally crossed a border with fake credentials to secure services to have even more babies that they need to feed with food stamps because they have not figured out that $10 an hour can not feed 5 children, mean they have a good trait to inherit. Most of my American friends have figured that out and many had 1 or 2 , not 5 on Americas Tab What about the trait of having large families through the anchor baby citizen who we have to pay to educate in the language they choose to speak? Being carted off to work in another country, well that is not a trait, it was a situation they were forced into,some way or another, of course they would become citizens, that one of the reasons for the Civil war. Many people were slaves, indentured servants, that has zero to do with illegal immigration. Those people were not taking services, they were providing labor, not getting food stamps and tutors, and by the way at that time our country needed people to build up the country,that is not the case at this point or it would not be called an immigration problem. My fathers father was a farmer in Hungary and poor crop performance forced him to come to PA legaly through a visa because at that time farmers were needed. He took his 8 children(farmers had alot of children to help on the farm) which he fed from his labor and sent them to school. They learnt English and were not tutored in Hungarian obviously. He went on to have more children who spoke American, served in the Army and created wealth. See really it is ok to be a laborer or farm worker, I never remember my father saying that his father was exploited working on a farm. I would think they were happy to have the oportunity to work, when his farm in hungary was not yeilding crops. He always told my brother and I( example 2 chldren that you are able to feed) , get a good education so you do not have to work with your hands, I want you to work with your mind. It worked, I have 4 children I am able to feed and teach my children the same. The traits that illegal's are passing on are take what you can, how ever you can, and they learn that from the preschool free breakfast lunch, dinner and afterschool program.If they wanted to instill good traits they would be only having the children they could feed, not having more to increase food stamp money, disability checks etc and would encourage their children to speak English, which would be a major start in improving relations not to mention stopping the money drain for dual language education.
+1 Rep point for that. Good stuff and thank you for sharing your personal story
you definitely crack me up though .. loving it
As for my dad, i would prefer he weren't on unemployment..
Why don't you deport your dad? He is a freeloader. He collects unemployment. He's a drain on society. I'd rather have a Mexican who would do back-breaking work, contributing to society, than your dad who merely sits around watching TV. The Mexican deserves to be an American citizen. Your dad doesn't. Deport him.
Let's assume your numbers are correct: 10 billion dollars cost by the illegals. They're consuming resources and not paying into the system. That's the argument, right?
Solution: legalize the illegals, then let them pay taxes. The 10 billion that they are consuming in services will now be recovered in the form of taxes.
You've just cut the deficit by half.
Or push them out and give those new minimum wage jobs to the people who are here lawfully who don't have jobs.
More people+less jobs=more people leeching.
Doesn't solve a thing.
Send Mexicans back to Mexico and bring American jobs back to America.
"Why don't you deport your dad? He is a freeloader. He collects unemployment. He's a drain on society. I'd rather have a Mexican who would do back-breaking work, contributing to society, than your dad who merely sits around watching TV. The Mexican deserves to be an American citizen. Your dad doesn't. Deport him." You really most of played hooky a lot in school. People pay into unemployment ,employees payroll taxes, so when you are laid off you collect that, it is an insurance fund and any one who reads the paper know that benefits have been extended. The hard working Mexicans which of course are many, those who are paid off the books, will not be able to participate in that under normal conditions. If they are hurt on the job, they may be able to sue though, and they will for compennsation. By the way have you ever even been to Mexico I have many times and I do not mean the Islands or Major cities. If you drive your car in the country side you can be pulled over, for any number of "problems' by the police. Do you think they politely ask you for you papers like in Arizona. No they tell you what your "crime was" and basically you pay or you do not want to find out what. Do you think they would send your kid to school tutor them in English and give them lunch if you could not afford to feed them, would they think. you "deserve" that.
Now .. lets try and put it into context of my overarching point ...
Which is .. Supply and demand. w/ unemployment @ 13% in california .. there is no such thing as jobs that american's don't want to work... that was the context right? So if you understand the point i am making ..it is one of supply/demand .. I don't want to work @ all actually either ... most people don't .. but i HAVE to .. to eat ..
So, why don't you also not practice selective reading
I get it. You're still doing the whole selective reading thing, and that's why you're confused.
When you see my post you see this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated
THERE ARE jobs that certain Americans refuse to work.
But that's not what I said. The gray words are critical to the point. I'm not talking about the general idea that work sucks. I'm telling you the fact that...and pay attention this time....GENERALLY SPEAKING, MOST AMERICANS DO NOT WANT TO WORK *CERTAIN TYPES OF JOBS*. That's a factual statement. Which jobs? Well, the ones the illegals hold now, again, generally speaking, which backs up the fact. There are exceptions to that train of thought. You gotta think though - if Americans really wanted those positions, why would they be available for the illegals? Underpaid? Maybe. But that's a government issue, not an employer issue, IMO.
Let me help you further by giving you an example. There are very few Americans right now who would want to be out in farmland in Arizona, in the extreme heat all day, picking vegetables or tending cattle, if it's not their own farmland (i.e. working for someone else). However those positions are necessary for the way of life that people want, so they look the other way when the farmer gives the job to an illegal who is happy enough to get $5/hour. The hypocrisy comes in when those same Americans then pitch a fit about said farmer hiring said illegal and underpaying them, when they really have only themselves to blame for allowing such a thing to happen in the first place by being so damn picky.
I admit - I wouldn't work such a job even if I was poor. I'd rather suffer in the military. But then I'm not whining about the employers, because I think they're not the primary ones to blame. It is America in general who is to blame for creating the problem by giving criminals amnesty instead of being the bad guy. And oh by the way, lest we not forget that if this were any other country, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.. that was very wrong ... 
. I pointed out my dad to show that I make no exceptions to the rule even for family. I stated a low income job example using CA's minimum wage and stated twice it that the model assumes the otherwise unemployed low income individual would have been working the job the illegal would.. Given the statistics.. most people who are unemployed are low skilled labor .. So it is not a baseless assumption. 
