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You've clearly been fed Afrocentric lies. This goes along the same propaganda about Egyptians being black based on depictions ignoring that there were also wall paintings depicting themselves anywhere from white, brown, blue and red. These are not based on historical facts.
Race is more than skin deep. A good portion of India's people are dark brown/black skinned and they are the furthest thing from sub saharan Africans. Again the Moors ranged from pale to olive, up to brown skinned just like the North African Berbers that live there today. The likes of you should travel these parts of the world and see for yourself instead of listening to afrocentric sites.
LOL on the bold. The only "Afrocentric" lie I have been told, I guess from my comments on this subject is that Europeans labeled and depicted Moors are black.
I said nothing of Egyptians.
On race, as stated, there is no such thing as race in the human context. We are all the same race. It is a social construct.
I don't read "afrocentric" sites. I actually do not think very highly of Afrocentrics because I feel, that they, like yourself and other posters, attempt to negate the true cultural and physical aspects of a certain group of people to fit their particular viewpoint of history. I feel they are quacks and I really don't get why you would even mention me viewing such sites when the only "explanation" I gave to you was in regards to Europeans describing and depicting Moors as black people. I'm actually pretty sure you stated that only because I said I was black and you believe that all black people agree with or are Afrocentrics due to your narrow view of darker skinned persons...
Also I will point out though that I do feel a large amount of people, including maybe yourself and other posters who are European or not of the African diaspora, many times will attempt to make the more well known African kingdoms and societies as not "black." IMO it is a symptom white supremacy which seeks to portray the world only through a European/white lens.
Africa is a "brown" continent. As such, all of the indigenous cultures are brown/black peoples. Skin color alone makes no difference in regards to the conquest of another land or about their intelligence or knowledge, but it is very odd IMO that the kingdoms and tribes of Africa who are thought highly of by Europeans are essentially removed of their "blackness" IMO due to historically Europeans not attributing intelligence as a characteristic of black people.
However, on the flip side, too many Afrocentric people place too great of an importance on the "blackness" of Egypt. It seems everyone fights over them and the Moors. It is ridiculous. IMO Egyptians are black as well but they are not recently connected to a majority of black Americans, who seem to rule the Afrocentric circles and them believing they have some sort of recent connection to Egypt is just as ridiculous as saying that the Moors were not black IMO.
LOL on the bold. The only "Afrocentric" lie I have been told, I guess from my comments on this subject is that Europeans labeled and depicted Moors are black.
I said nothing of Egyptians.
People who believe the Egyptians and Moors were black have been fed Afrocentric lies. You don't seem willing to admit it.
I wonder how far you go since you're trying to claim that you're not like that. What about say Phoenicians? Babylonians? How about Israel? Where do you stand on the "controversial" segments of history? How far does the delusion go.
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On race, as stated, there is no such thing as race in the human context. We are all the same race. It is a social construct.
You've made contradictions of this throughout your posts. You clearly do believe there are different races and they go far deeper than just skin color, it's ok, it's been proven scientifically. You can stop the far-left pretense.
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[]I don't read "afrocentric" sites. I actually do not think very highly of Afrocentrics because I feel, that they, like yourself and other posters, attempt to negate the true cultural and physical aspects of a certain group of people to fit their particular viewpoint of history. I feel they are quacks and I really don't get why you would even mention me viewing such sites when the only "explanation" I gave to you was in regards to Europeans describing and depicting Moors as black people. I'm actually pretty sure you stated that only because I said I was black and you believe that all black people agree with or are Afrocentrics due to your narrow view of darker skinned persons...
Nothing you stated in this thread came close to proving the lie that the Moors were black.
Also you couldn't grab that race-card fast enough.
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Also I will point out though that I do feel a large amount of people, including maybe yourself and other posters who are European or not of the African diaspora, many times will attempt to make the more well known African kingdoms and societies as not "black." IMO it is a symptom white supremacy which seeks to portray the world only through a European/white lens.
I'm neither white or black, thank you very much. I have no dog in this fight, I only care about historical truth and denounce propaganda.
Nobody is making anybody a race. We look at historical research and facts and base our conclusions on that. The conclusions are that the Moors(or Egyptians and others) were not black. They were the same people as the ones living there today: the North African Berbers.
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Africa is a "brown" continent. As such, all of the indigenous cultures are brown/black peoples.
Your arguments become more ridiclous with every post.
Define "brown". The Berbers(native Moors) range from pale to olive skinned to light brown. Again this is just skin color, race goes far deeper. They are not and have never been Sub Saharan blacks.
People conquer lands and migrate throughout history. Thinking they "must" have certain characteristics because of the lands they live in is ridiculous.
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Skin color alone makes no difference in regards to the conquest of another land or about their intelligence or knowledge, but it is very odd IMO that the kingdoms and tribes of Africa who are thought highly of by Europeans are essentially removed of their "blackness" IMO due to historically Europeans not attributing intelligence as a characteristic of black people.
More victim-complex. Losing the argument=racism accusations.
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However, on the flip side, too many Afrocentric people place too great of an importance on the "blackness" of Egypt. It seems everyone fights over them and the Moors. It is ridiculous.
If by "fighting" you mean afrocentric propaganda is trying to claim them(and failing) due to insecurity then sure.
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IMO Egyptians are black as well
It's not a matter of opinion and no they were not. Same as with the Berbers/Moors, go to Egypt today and you will see what type of people the ancient Egyptians looked like.
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but they are not recently connected to a majority of black Americans, who seem to rule the Afrocentric circles and them believing they have some sort of recent connection to Egypt is just as ridiculous as saying that the Moors were not black IMO.
The only connection they can make is slavery in Egypt, and those were East African slaves for the most part. Most African Americans have west african roots.
People who believe the Egyptians and Moors were black have been fed Afrocentric lies. You don't seem willing to admit it.
LOL. You are really "into" this I see. I already said that people from Africa are "brown" and not "white." Also that Europeans (self proclaimed "white" people) labeled Moors as "black." That is why I consider them "black" (socially constructed racial category BTW. Please learn to follow. "Black" was made up by "white" people/Europeans. So them saying Moors were "black" means the Moors where "black" lol).
I don't even understand where your "Afrocentric" accusations are coming into play. I can only infer that it is because I said I'm black and you think all black people are Afrocentric.
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I wonder how far you go since you're trying to claim that you're not like that. What about say Phoenicians? Babylonians? How about Israel? Where do you stand on the "controversial" segments of history? How far does the delusion go.
Your delusion runs very far it seems (in my Yoda voice lol). I said nothing of either of those countries either.
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You've made contradictions of this throughout your posts. You clearly do believe there are different races and they go far deeper than just skin color, it's ok, it's been proven scientifically. You can stop the far-left pretense.
So you are now accusing me of being an Afrocentric AND of being a "left" leaning person . Very odd....
There is only one race - the human race. The color caste system created by Europeans is a socially constructed "race" of which both you and I are speaking. Europeans socially labeled the Moors as "black." You should believe your own people.
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Nothing you stated in this thread came close to proving the lie that the Moors were black.
Also you couldn't grab that race-card fast enough.
You should go post in the political forum....
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I'm neither white or black, thank you very much. I have no dog in this fight, I only care about historical truth and denounce propaganda.
Then why are you being so hostile because I agree with Europeans from 700-1600 who said that Moors were "black".....?
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Nobody is making anybody a race. We look at historical research and facts and base our conclusions on that. The conclusions are that the Moors(or Egyptians and others) were not black. They were the same people as the ones living there today: the North African Berbers.
You are making it about "race." You are not looking at any historical "facts." If you did, you would see "historically" Europeans labeled Moors as "black." Which is my only point in this whole matter.
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Your arguments become more ridiclous with every post.
LOL.
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Define "brown". The Berbers(native Moors) range from pale to olive skinned to light brown. Again this is just skin color, race goes far deeper. They are not and have never been Sub Saharan blacks.
People conquer lands and migrate throughout history. Thinking they "must" have certain characteristics because of the lands they live in is ridiculous.
LOL at the bold. Go back to preschool and learn your colors. I shouldn't have to "define brown." LOL.
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More victim-complex. Losing the argument=racism accusations.
How am I a victim? Maybe a victim of your obsession at the moment lol.
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It's not a matter of opinion and no they were not. Same as with the Berbers/Moors, go to Egypt today and you will see what type of people the ancient Egyptians looked like.
That is an interesting comment, since people in Egypt are still brown lol.
FWIW, "Upper" Egypt has always been and is still inhabited by people who are darker skinned versus "Lower" Egypt. There is no one particular type of Egyptian. They have different looks/appearances. FWIW, my grandmother looks like a blue eyed white woman. She says she is "black." I bet you would try to argue with her and tell her that she isn't lol. You are coming off as pretty ridiculous and juvenile, the whole "define brown" thing will be a highlight of my day!
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The only connection they can make is slavery in Egypt, and those were East African slaves for the most part. Most African Americans have west african roots.
Duh!
On the bold.
You are a piece of work. Thanks for the laugh for the day.
LOL. You are really "into" this I see. I already said that people from Africa are "brown" and not "white." Also that Europeans (self proclaimed "white" people) labeled Moors as "black." That is why I consider them "black" (socially constructed racial category BTW. Please learn to follow. "Black" was made up by "white" people/Europeans. So them saying Moors were "black" means the Moors where "black" lol).
I told you already, drop the far-left pretense. You used black yourself already in numerous threads yet you keep contradicting yourself with the "there is no white-black" mantra. You know exactly what those terms mean, to a tee. I won't start using 'negroids' because you already showed how sensitive you are.
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I don't even understand where your "Afrocentric" accusations are coming into play. I can only infer that it is because I said I'm black and you think all black people are Afrocentric.
More victim-complex.
My accusations come from the fact that you are deluded into believing the un-scientific belief that the Moors and Egyptians(and possibly other non-black civilizations) were black.
Afrocentrism is the only segment who believes this propaganda. I actually know black people who are smart enough to know the truth and don't cling on to Egyptians, Moors and others out of insecurity.
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Your delusion runs very far it seems (in my Yoda voice lol). I said nothing of either of those countries either.
I didn't say you did. It's called a question. I'm trying to gauge your level of ridiculous beliefs because it will probably show a pattern.
You know this. That's why you're not answering because you fear to show your true beliefs and testing wether you're truthful about not being afrocentric. Wanna try again? Were those people I mentioned black or not?
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There is only one race - the human race. The color caste system created by Europeans is a socially constructed "race" of which both you and I are speaking. Europeans socially labeled the Moors as "black." You should believe your own people.
You have not proven that the Moors were black. What you have claimed does not prove it and you have not even proven that claim itself even.
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Then why are you being so hostile because I agree with Europeans from 700-1600 who said that Moors were "black".....?
You believe the Egyptians and Moors were black. You are dancing around the issues or simply too scared to answer simple questions.
My bigger issue is that you don't have courage to express your true beliefs. Trust me that if you are up front about it all and admit your true agenda(afrocentrism) I would know what I'm dealing with and I will drop this discussion immediately.
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You are making it about "race." You are not looking at any historical "facts." If you did, you would see "historically" Europeans labeled Moors as "black." Which is my only point in this whole matter.
Btw in another thread you said that you believe the Egyptians were black. Is this also because 'someone else said they're black and I'm just pointing that out'? Fess up please.
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LOL at the bold. Go back to preschool and learn your colors. I shouldn't have to "define brown." LOL.
People from India: brown. Natives from South America: brown. People from Thailand: brown. People from Somalia: brown. All of them the same color and yet very different people racially.
It's funny how you call me racist while I'm the one respectful enough to accept people's diversity and not paint them all with the same brush.
Berbers who are light brown skinned do not have the same skin color as sub saharan blacks.
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How am I a victim? Maybe a victim of your obsession at the moment lol.
A victim of your own stupidity.
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That is an interesting comment, since people in Egypt are still brown lol.
Most are olive skinned.
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FWIW, "Upper" Egypt has always been and is still inhabited by people who are darker skinned versus "Lower" Egypt. There is no one particular type of Egyptian. They have different looks/appearances.
And you clearly have no clue what they look like because you think their ancestors were blacks even though it's been proven that genetically the natives are closest related to the Copts living in Egypt today. Olive skinned, middle eastern looking people just like in ancient times.
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Duh!
On the bold.
You are a piece of work. Thanks for the laugh for the day.
All the "LOL's" and 'u mad' make you sound very juvenile. I suggest you grow up.
All the "LOL's" and 'u mad' make you sound very juvenile. I suggest you grow up.
I laughed (LOL) because I thought what you stated was funny, nothing more. I did not say "u mad." I don't type using that sort of diction .
And FWIW, I do think your comments are funny, mostly due to them being very non-intellectual and not coming from a rational view of how Europeans (historically) described a particular group. From an historical perspective, it seems to me that you are calling the Europeans of AD700-1600s liars. They called Moors "black" and now you are trying to say they are not and are trying to "prove" they are not when you don't know for sure. I am only going by the historical description of them, provided by white/Europeans. Why would the white/Europeans lie? There is no underlying agenda from my view. Is there from you? Again, do you think that the white/Europeans lied in their description and depiction of Moors?
If so, that is fine for you. But I take their view more seriously than yours since they were actually there....
It is sad that in this forum, which is supposed to be about history, that posters, including yourself, interjected political view points (attempting to call me "left," "Afrocentric," and a "victim" when all I did was type a very non-controversial opinion in believing the white/European description of Moors).
It is unnecessary IMO. As stated, there is only one race of humans. We have a wonderfully, fascinating world history and I don't see history as political because it is silly IMO to do so.
IMO attempting to say that the Moors were not black is a way for people to further attempt to spread the idea that only the white/Caucasoid (which doesn't exist) is superior in war and intelligence. By ascribing to this belief, and using those retired racist terms, you are aligning yourselves with a racists past.
We all seem hung up on descriptve language that was used hundreds of years ago. We have little to go on as someone with brown skin might have been called "black" 700 years ago if they were the darkest skin person encountered at the time. Contemporary portraits of people designated as Moors show darker skinned people sometimes -- but not always 'black'.
Arguing that there are no actual races and white people are not white or black people are not black and then demanding that the Moors were black is trying to have it both ways.
The paragraph quoted above is unhelpful in this discussion...which has been going in circles. This doesn't seem to be a History discussion any longer.
And FWIW, I do think your comments are funny, mostly due to them being very non-intellectual and not coming from a rational view of how Europeans (historically) described a particular group. From an historical perspective, it seems to me that you are calling the Europeans of AD700-1600s liars. They called Moors "black" and now you are trying to say they are not and are trying to "prove" they are not when you don't know for sure. I am only going by the historical description of them, provided by white/Europeans. Why would the white/Europeans lie? There is no underlying agenda from my view. Is there from you? Again, do you think that the white/Europeans lied in their description and depiction of Moors?
Before we discuss this further, you still have yet to provide sources for these decriptions as I asked since the beginning, and they would only be valid if their understanding of black at that point in history was the same as ours is today, and that it's not a case of darkest skin they had ever seen=black.
There are millions of people in India with the same shade of color as sub saharan blacks. If they were encountered by others centuries ago and were called 'black', would you then claim today's Indians?
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Originally Posted by SunGrins
Arguing that there are no actual races and white people are not white or black people are not black and then demanding that the Moors were black is trying to have it both ways.
LOL. See residinghere2007, now that statement is actually funny, not a passive aggressive attempt at a juvenile jab.
"WE ARE ALL ONE! There is no such thing as white or black! Just...let me call all these great civilizations BLACK though 'cause it validates me and and my afrocentrists"
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Bottom line is races don't stop at a link, there is a zone with different levels of mixing. Scandinavia is 100% White, by the time you get to the Mediterranean coast many people have some North African and Sub Sah African ancestry. North Africa is a mix of Arab, White, and Black.
To get a visual on this here is a documentary about the land occupied by Morocco: Western Sahara. Those people are range from White with dark hair to very Black.
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. Very odd....
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