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Adding my two cents, bear in mind that every bullet exiting the muzzle of your firearm has the word "LAWSUIT" etched on it, no matter whether your two-legged target lives or dies.
You WILL be handcuffed, placed in a patrol car, and taken to the local police station for an extensive, exhausting interrogation. If you're smart, you will "lawyer up" the second you are read your rights and keep your mouth shut until you have conferred with legal counsel. Be sure to have adequate $$$ in the bank to cover your legal fees.
Your firearm(s) will be seized and if you live in a gun hating state like California, getting them returned if you are cleared involves a lot of time, money, and jumping through hoops.
Not to mention the possibility of psychological trauma you may experience from the entire ordeal.
I don’t know...Are you talking about buckshot or Ar15? I don’t think these are Capital offenses in most cases. If someone is Intentionally burning a building with people inside, that might be an exception.
I don’t know...Are you talking about buckshot or Ar15? I don’t think these are Capital offenses in most cases. If someone is Intentionally burning a building with people inside, that might be an exception.
I don't want to limit people's thought process. If for no other reason, I think it makes the question unrealistically easy. You turn the corner and you see a store has been overrun and is being looted...across the street you see someone lighting a building on fire. You clearly see who is doing it, but you don't know the entire situation inside.
For the participant doing this that will want due process, they simply see a person holding a gun. There is no loadout counter. Though even that may be too simple. A scoped precision rifle may have less chance of harming nearby non-participants. A silenced weapon may be seen as opportunistic. A Saturday Night Special may have a range so short it may appear the vigilante is a participant themselves.
I think the key element is that the situation is progressing. Was 1 TV taken, or was that a prelude while a truck is backed into a building to rob everyone inside? Of course, someone who is caught shoplifting a 12 pack of beer is not, upon being caught outside the store, then to be shot. The crime at that point is complete. The full extent of damage known it does not merit deadly force. Which brings up another assumption I have. Save for a pump BB gun, even if a gun is not generally considered deadly, I would consider shooting someone with a gun a deadly force activity.
Is it the actions of the aggressor?
Is it the actions of the defender?
Is it the capabilities of either party?
Is it the status of the action taking place?
Is it dependent upon people being or possibly being, in a given area?
There's a bit of depth in the seemingly simple question.
I'd much rather see fire trucks blasting people with water.
Its in the 50's so if the protesters get wet they likely would need to leave (soaking wet and 50 degrees won't last long). But if someone gets hypothermia and dies would the police/firefighters be liable?
If you do decide to start shooting it then everyone (the looters/rioters) become hyper-focused on you and your location. You better not fall asleep or run out of ammo. When the cops appear, you better not shoot one of them accidentally. Can't fire into the crowds and possibly shoot/kill a bystander. You start shooting, how long before someone shoots back? They can move/maneuver but you are stuck at one location.
CNN showed a black shopkeeper in MN that had his store looted. While cleaning up, talking to the film crew the looters came back to try to steal a 3 ft high floor safe from one of the offices! It was big/heavy which is why they didn't get it the first time around.
Its a no win situation.........You can't negotiate/reason with hostile crowds in the heat of the moment.
Speaking in very general terms, as state law varies:
You may use deadly physical force (DPF/shooting in this instance) to terminate or prevent:
A DPF Attack
Rape
Armed Robbery
Burglary of an Occupied Dwelling
Arson
You may generally never use DPF to prevent or terminate a property crime. That is, a larceny (theft of property), destruction of property, theft in general.
You may not use DPF to stop a physical force attack.
Rich
This might be true in the state you live or worked but it's not at all accurate in others.
It does explain why we see looting in some states but not others.
It's come up in Minneapolis, but it seems to be a trouble spot whenever there's an evacuation for a hurricane or key event. Curious what the CD thinks.
I could not vote in your poll because you conflate two very different groups of criminals.
Like with any crime, the punishment depends on the severity.
So by definition, an arsonist is committing a crime of greater magnitude, which can not only complete destroy the inventory of a home or business (something looters might not be able to do in totality), but it can destroy the building itself, and kill anyone and/or pets inside.
Furthermore it can spread and damage adjacent property, and can injure kill those charged with trying to put out the fire.
Thus shooting a arsonist attempting to set your business or house on fire might well be justified.
A looter by definition is trying to steal inventory/valuables, and while a crime, it typically would not do any of the aforementioned.
Now I know some will say that if a looter steals a persons inventory, and they are not insured (or under-insured), it could ruin their ability to put food on the table for their families.
[Hence the reason people empathized with the Korean businessmen protecting their livelihood during the CA riots]
However by and large, looters are thieves, and our laws do not inflict the death penalty upon thieves.
What this thread shows me is that there are many "conservatives" who are always yelling about following the Constitution, but don't really believe in the Constitution at all.
Adding my two cents, bear in mind that every bullet exiting the muzzle of your firearm has the word "LAWSUIT" etched on it, no matter whether your two-legged target lives or dies.
You WILL be handcuffed, placed in a patrol car, and taken to the local police station for an extensive, exhausting interrogation. If you're smart, you will "lawyer up" the second you are read your rights and keep your mouth shut until you have conferred with legal counsel. Be sure to have adequate $$$ in the bank to cover your legal fees.
Your firearm(s) will be seized and if you live in a gun hating state like California, getting them returned if you are cleared involves a lot of time, money, and jumping through hoops.
Not to mention the possibility of psychological trauma you may experience from the entire ordeal.
Just a bit more food for thought.
All of which are good reasons NOT to live in a gun hating state like California. In some states, you'll likely be awarded a medal of some kind for terminating an arsonist or a thug attempting to break into your home while you are there. Self defense is a valid legal defense in many states.
If you loot and/or burn down/destroy any business should be charged fully and held accountable. If they are trespassing and break in while you are there, yes shooting, which is protecting yourself/business is ok. Again, the question was "shooting" not "killing". Just like, how would you handle it if someone did this to your home?
Shoot to kill is what everyone will do. There is no way to control what happens once you pull the gun and trigger. So yes, everyone who owns a gun and property will potentially shoot to kill me just for being there.
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