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Josiesdad, we did much the same as Joyce with her Sheldon. Rocky's age was also a consideration with our treatment. Our love for him, we just had to do what felt best for him. Each situation is different. Only wishing that we had him in our arms again, to love and hold. But there are many memories and signs that he is with us, and always will be.
Sagesmom, Little Sage, bless your heart, it would seem that the infection has invaded so much and our hearts are with you at this time.
This is a nasty invasive disease, and we found it to be one that the signs were not there - at least in Rocky's situation - until it had taken it's hold on him. The things that we would do differently are few, though, we would have blood work taken upon the initial swelling between his eyes as he turned out to be severely anemic as a result of the cancer.
None of the vets we spoke to suggested blood work, maybe that is not part of the Palliative care we had decided on for him.
Rocky was in such agony and pain, we made a choice to take his pain and let him go to a better place for him, that morning. It was a very emotional morning, Palm Sunday.
Rocky was surrounded with all his family who adored him for over 12 years, we believe he knew we had done all we could do for him. The worst part is second guessing, and in the grief group we are in, most are doing the same. If only, and so many things - human nature is to fix things, I think, and some things cannot be fixed. Only accepted. Very hard to do for us. Bless you all with the journey you have with your dearest ones. Darbi and Rocky, sweet angel
Dashdog-Sage was diagnosed with Adenocarsinoma. I have not heard of the nerve sheath sarcoma before.
Update-The swelling on the side of his nose has gone down and there is no leaking out of the opening. The swelling on the top of his nose has also gone down and there is minimal leakage out of that opening. It seems like he is changing daily. Last night we went to dinner and when we got home he looked so different. My husband was cleaning his face around the openings and Sage was just wagging his tail. The leakage that he had coming out of both places was yellow like the mucus coming out of his nose. This whole process has been a roller coaster ride.
Yes it is a roller coaster ride and quite a wild one at that sometimes. Dash developed his first swelling in Feb 2009 so nine months after his IMRT. Then it went down, then it swelled up ( the oncologist gave him days at that point!) and I was wondering if it was swelling from the neplasene he had been getting.Then it went way down and stayed that way for months before it finally swelled up and got huge and opened up. But up until that time it never drained nor was it ever bald like Sage's. Every case is so different. Dash too had adenocarcinoma. My other older Dog Jazz had the nerve sheath sarcoma and it was on her chest but was a bald and red/pink or what I call an angry looking growth. She had it removed and at 14 is a 2 year survivor.
I will keep my fingers crossed that Sages goes down and stays down for a few months like Dash's did so you can have more time together. Jan
Thanks for everyone's help, and prayers. We all know how difficult this is. I have contacted CO State Univ (CSU) to see what they suggest. I wish they were more responsive. I called on Monday, got my first callback yesterday (from a secy), and she said she would have an oncologist call. I don't know what I would do with CSU since they are so expensive. I have had suggestions from others that I have the tumor debulked. I can only imagine what that would cost. I do understand that by debulking it would give the neo a chance to do its work. Now, when I give the neo nose drops, the next 24 hours are bad. The tumor swells so much that Josie can't breathe. I'm giving her Mucinex to break up the mucous. But, so far nothing has come out her nose. I'm afraid the tumor is blocking the nostrils entirely. I did hear from Dr Scanlon in response to my call, and she said to stop the nose drops after one month 'if they are not working'. I'm not sure what she meant by 'not working'. I called her back and left a message to find out. She suggested, if the nose drops aren't working, to put Josie back on oral neo -- at 1/3 the normal dose. I'm not sure what 1/3 the normal dose is. Another question for her. Josie had a lousy night last night. I'm not sure she slept anymore than one hour. She puts her head down, and then pops up 5 seconds later to get a breath. I think we'll do the drops one more week, and if that doesn't help open up her breathing we'll give her oral neo. Or, maybe CSU will have called me by then and have some suggestion. I'm afraid committing to even seeing an oncologist at CSU is an expensive proposition. I hate to think money when looking at how to treat Josie, but I have to. She broke her ankle 4 years ago, and that was $3000. Then last year she ruptured her achilles -- another $3000. Plus all the other normal bills. I have heard that CSU doesn't do anything for canine cancer patients that is less than $5000. And, of course, no guarantee. My wife said to me last night that she thinks we need to put Josie down. Just when she said that I could hear Josie wagging her tail on the floor. I've put several dogs down before, but they were in such a weak condition that there was obviously no option. It may get that way with Josie, but she still enjoys her walks, eats well, wags her tail, etc. She just can't breathe. I wish there was something I could do other than what I'm doing that didn't cost a fortune.
I finally did get a call from Dr Susan LaRue, the head radiologist at the CSU vet school and treatment center. She said there are two approaches:
1. IMRT is low dose radiation over the course of about 3 weeks -- 18 treatments. Dog stays at CSU. Average life after treatment is 15-18 months. Cost is $6500-7000.
2. Stereotactic radiotherapy is new. CSU has had the machine about 2 years. It is high intensity radiation over the course of 3 days. CSU has treated 40 dogs using this method. There is not enough data collected yet to determine average life expectancy after treatment. Cost is $5000-5500. Difference in cost is primarily the difference in boarding cost.
Dr LaRue did not feel surgery to 'debulk' the tumor was a viable approach. It is invasive and expensive, and reduces the effectiveness of radiation if it is to be used at a later date.
I am on the fence to spend that much money. My wife is dead against it. So, I guess we'll continue on our current path and hope for the best. I have calls into Dr Scanlon, and my vet, to get their further input.
I wish there was a way to help Josie breathe at night. I did give her one drop of decongestant nose drops 2 nights ago, and it did seem to help. My trad. vet suggested that some time ago, but said to be careful because of the rebound effect.
Am not sure I have any advice that will help as the night time breathing can be a big issue and there is not much to help as often it is due to swelling or tumor growth.
Yes the radiation is expensive and requires a current CT which tacks on another $1000.00+. Unless you live in Colorado there is also the expense of travel. If only money did grow on trees things like this would not have to boil down to the money aspect and can I afford treatment issue and could simply be what is best for all involved.
I can tell you with Dash and his Palliative IMRT which was 5 days it cost around $3000.00 and yes he had to have CT first so that added another $1000.00 So it was not much cheaper but it did not place me in financial hardship and I have a job that over the years has been pretty secure ( less I become ill or screw up big time) and I have never felt in danger of loosing my job so yes that all weighed in on my doing the IMRT. Despite his being palliative he did live a long time as he had it in May 2008 and I put him to sleep in Sept 2009. The times they give you are averages so some dogs die within days or weeks and some live much longer and there is no guarantee as to which your dog would do.It is all a gamble and sadly in todays economy is more of a gamble then many can afford to take.
I think what is important is that you and your wife agree on what ever you decide as it will impact both of your lives. Not being able to get Radiation treatments does not mean that you are a bad owner or love your dog any less. We do our best and do what we can and should not feel that we failed when we can do no more.
My oldest Dog Jazz is going to the vets this week as her right eye seems to be either swollen or is being displaced a bit as is it does not look right. She did have a bleed in the eye earlier this year and we got it cleared up but the vet warned it could be she has a tumor behind the eye. At that point he said we could do more tests or we could wait and see. I picked wait and see as she is 14 and HATES vets. She is my once in a life time dog so very special to me so I know if there is a tumor there it will be difficult but I know I will have to base any treatments on her. Right now she is a young acting very happy 14 yr old so my question would be is it better to let her remain that way for as long as possible even if it means a shorter life or get her treatment which may take that enjoyment out of her life and possible buy her more time? I am praying I will not have to make it but know it is a very real possibility. What ever I decide if necessary I will learn to deal with and accept as the best I can do for her just as I did for Dash.
The sad truth is we can send a man to the moon, we can communicate via computers and cell phones and do hundreds of other amazing things yet we can not even cure a common cold so how do we expect to cure cancer?In too many cases it remains the winner.
I apologize for not having read all of your posts and not knowing if you'd tried antibiotics, but I wanted to suggest it anyway. They worked miracles for Scout. Clindamycin for 3 weeks worked best for us. We had times like what you describe that I figured the tumor was blocking his nasal cavity, but antibiotics cleared it up within a week.
Please also ask at CSU if they have financial aid available. Scout was irradiated three times, and we had assistance twice from both Tufts and Angell Memorial. We are by no means destitute, so I was surprised with the availability of funds.
Finally, my best wishes in your current day-tp-day fight with this disease. We did it for three years, and it is heartbreaking.
Thanks Jan and Erica. I switched to oral neo today. It didn't seem like the neo nose drops were working. There was no bleeding, and no discharge. Josie is lying next to me at the moment, snorting like crazy. I don't know what the snorting is from. I assume the tumor, but maybe it's in her throat. She has a lot of trouble breathing at night. Much better during the day. My vet suggested giving her nasal washes with saline. I've done it twice, but I don't think it's helping. Maybe it irritates, I don't know. He also suggested giving her OTC nasal decongestant sprays, twice per week for two weeks. I gave her a spray last night, but again it didn't help. I just don't know what else to do. I'm now giving her 6 drops of oral neo, twice per day. What do you think about that amount? Too little, too much? Josie gets 1500mg of cephalexin antibiotic daily. I don't know that it has helped. Maybe clindamyacin would be better.
I just want to let everyone know what has happened since I was on here on Monday . Monday night my dad got taken in to the hospital as he was not able to get out of bed and was confused when my brother stopped by. Well it seems he developed AML ( leukemia) and was in a leukemic blast crisis . He died about an hour before I got there on Tuesday.
Today I took Jazz into the vets to see about that eye swelling I knew in my gut it was a tumor and after an untrasound of her eye my gut as right. The tumor is behind the eye so any surgery would mean removing the eye and tumor and be difficult but not impossible and be very risky then we would have to do chemo and or radiation and still it would most likely just buy time. We did a Chest Xray and it suggests that there may be a met to her lung already as there is a shadow in her right lung..sooo it looks like I am now facing yet another tough decision . I know the kindest decision will also be the hardest.For 14 yrs Jazz has been my very special dog. Right now life sucks!
Dash,
I read your last post with my mouth and eyes wide open, I cant believe that once again God has thrown you pain. I am so sorry to hear of your father, was he previously diagnosed or did the diagnosis come right at the end? I am so sorry that you couldnt be there when he passed, I am not sure how your relationship is with him but I hope you were able to see him before then and do not harbor too much guilt about not being there when he passed on..As for Jazz I hate to hear that your gut was right ( unfortunately it usually is) and that once again you are faced with making such a tough decision..As you have told me and everyone else on this blog that no matter what choice you make it will be the right one. And to know that Jazz had a long 14 years with such a great owner makes her time well spent here on Earth. What is the plan for Jazz? Did the vet give you a time line? Is she suffering from what you see? please keep me posted and remember that you are in my thoughts..so sorry for another time in your life...
Joyce and Shimmy ( and of course Sheldon from heaven)
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