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Hi everyone,
I have read all 154 pages in this thread over the last month. I'm not sure if anyone is even here still reading...its been a couple months. But I figured I'd add my poor Sophie to the list of dogs diagnosed with nasal cancer.
Sophie had one nosebleed in March. It resolved on its own, but it was enough to freak me out and bring her to the vet. I reported some reverse coughing, but not really any sneezing. The vet of course could find nothing on blood tests or urinalysis.
Fast forward to June 6th. Over the weekend, Sophie looked lopey on Saturday. By Sunday, I knew something was wrong. She wasn't herself. And she only ate half her dinner. She looked miserable. She woke me up during the night, by nosing me in the bed - and I notice a bump had appeared on her nose. About 2 cm, at the end of the muzzle - basically behind her actual nose on the right side. I settled her into bed and brought her to the vet as soon as they opened.
The vet said she believed it was a mass. We took radiographs of her chest and there was no masses in the lungs. We did a rhinotomy biopsy (the one up the nose) but all they could get out was "inflammation." We were referred to a specialist for a CT.
A week later, the CT showed an extensive mass, involving but not invading the cribiform plate. We tried to take a cytology sample of the bump on her nose. Again... inflammation. At this point, since we knew it wasn't in her brain yet, we were talking about palliative or definitive radiation. BUT, just as an added complication - we also knew she had a large old mineralized benign tumor attached to a couple inches of her GI tract.
We decided that if we're going to treat the nasal cancer, we may as well go in and get the big old mass in the tummy. And we figured, while she was under, we should do a tumor debulking for diagnostic purposes (it would also give her some sinus/nose relief hopefully.)
I really struggled with figuring out if this was the right thing. If we started aggressive, we were pretty much locked into radiation it felt like. I sat in our little city Brownstone backyard with her the afternoon before the surgery was supposed to happen. I asked her, "Sophie, what to do you think? Are you strong enough for this? I don't want to lose you, but I don't want you to hurt for a second. I love you so much. So tell me what the right thing is buddy." Sophie looked at me for a second...wagged her tail expectantly and then pounced on her prized stuffed chicken and starting tossing it around in the air and picking it up and making me chase her. I know you all know the tail wagging play bow! Its hard to refuse! Its like she was saying to me..."Um, I got this giant tumor in my head so I'm not sure I'm understanding you right...but I think you just asked me IF I WANT TO PLAY FETCH WITH CHICKEN!!!!!! OMG! YES!" I brought her to the surgeon at 7:30 the next morning and held my breath until about 3 PM that afternoon.
Sophie is such a champ. She came through swimmingly. Lots of blood, but it stopped fine and by the next day she was wagging her tail and eating in the ICU. She even climbed in the surgeons lap to kiss him during a physical exam! He got a lot of "material" out of her head. A lot of inflamed tissue, some infection and the abnormal cells. He even "reconstructed" the bone damage in her muzzle the best he could. He did a great job, she was so much better! Slept better, breathed better. Just all around happier and more active.
She was on Rimadyl at that point, and tolerated it well. It was like having my puppy back. I thought she was slowing down ya know? At the beginning of the year she was taking shorter walks...not as active. I didn't realize how uncomfortable she was.
So after getting the biopsy results back and talking with the oncologist...he said he'd totally support the definitive 20 dose radiation treatment. The bad news of the biopsy was undifferentiated sarcoma. But the good news was low mitotic rate! They're not sure how well it will respond though.Throughout the whole thing...she hadn't had a lot of symptoms. And we knew from the removal of the mass on the GI - her spleen looked good (no nodules) and we even did a liver biopsy that came back perfect just to make sure there was nothing going on there. He said the big plate of lymph nodes looked clear. She had no arythmias or murmurs in her heart and the lymph nodes local to the nasal tumor were clear. She seemed as healthy as a dog can be with a big ol' tumor in her face.
So far the only side effects from the surgery is a drippy nose. Its not bad...its not even noticeable unless you are looking for it. No blood at all. Even right after the surgery. She does seem to get some irritation and seems to be swallowing it more than its coming out her nose. She has also gotten some reverse sneezing too. Probably from the drip. She's also getting some awful breath on her. I don't think its blood, it smells more like...indont know what! No blood in her stool anyway. Ugh. I still let her kiss me though. I can't help it.
We're on the second week of radiation now. The oncologist decided to start her on Prednisone. Maybe it will calm down the inflammation in her nose. Maybe it will help halt the tumor. Hopefully she will tolerate it without side effects - 10mg/day and she's a 58 lb dog. The only other side effect so far has been fatigue. She HATES getting up at 6 AM and then getting anesthesia and then waking up and staying up all the way until 3 PM! (We shuttle her back and forth to the treatments every day.) Then he HAS to go for a walk (because she just loves that.) Then we have to sniff around and check the perimeter of the yard. And then at 4-5PM she finally gets to take a nap. Within minutes she's in that deep deep, running and barking dream sleep.
I have no problem managing dry nose, dry eye, running a humidifier for her for the rest of her life after radiation. I just want the tumor gone...at least so we can have more time with her after going through all this. She seems so happy! Its like she feels better than she has in a while.
She's my little mutt job! Except for regular vaccinations, physicals and two tummy aches from trash raids...she's never cost me a penny at the vet her whole life. She's so sweet, and low maintenance. We live in an apartment building and she doesn't ever get goaded into barking. She's good with other dogs - even when we dog sit for friends. She's like a little ambassador to the neighborhood. Even people who are agnostic about dogs love Sophie. We've been together just about 11 years now...since she was 6 weeks old. I hope we can stay together and be happy just a little while longer. One more fishing trip, one more camping trip, a few more cuddles. As long as my girl is ok.
Last edited by My_Sophicles; 07-11-2011 at 08:38 PM..
I just read your post and the first thing I noticed was the love for Sophie in your "voice". I can tell she is your friend, companion and possibly your partner in crime I am sorry to hear that you have become part of this dreaded nasal cancer club but it sounds like you are making great strides in her treatment and are giving the best possible chance for overcoming this disease. I never had the opportunity with my Sheldon to do the radiation and we had a long hard battle for 6 months before I had to make the decision to say goodbye but I would have given it my all to have "One more fishing trip, one more camping trip, a few more cuddles" ....Sophie is very lucky to have you and I wish you the best of luck in her treatment..Please update us on her progress and feel free to ask questions, I may not have any answers about the radiation treatment but alot of our friends on here do and if there is one thing I was (am) greatful for was this blog where you could talk about your pups and their good days vs bad days and really have someone that was/is in your shoes give advice.
Hugs to you and your Sophie!
Joycez (Sheldon in heaven)
Hi joycez! I read about your gorgeous rottie Sheldon. Its been just over a year now since he went to doggie heaven correct? Poor boy...way too soon. He was so good looking! You must miss him everyday. Are you doing ok?
I remember you went through a whole fungal or cancer diagnosis issue. I feel like we went through a similar thing. The doctor told me fungal infections are pretty rare in the northeast so we should use cancer as the working diagnosis. But really two biopsies and even a needle aspirate of the lump and always "inflamation, no abnormal cells!" Argh! We had to open her nose and remove it just to diagnose it.
Man the cost of this is really worrying me. So far we've been able to cover the double (nasal and GI surgery), the radiation treatment planning and the first half of the treatmeng. We have to pay the other half the day she is done. So we're almost there but then we are pretty much done. I have to admit the husband has been great. He met Sophie when she was about 2 - and he knew I came with the dog so...that was that. When I came home with the radiation and surgery estimate, I wasn't thinking we'd wouldnt be able to do it - but maybe a different treatment. But he immediately whipped out the spreadsheets and put a plan together. He said if this is what it takes to keep her out of pain...we can't even think about NOT doing this. So here we are. I'm so glad I have the both of them! But still, its gonna be tight for a while. Worth it for the Sopher though!
I know a lot of people are up in the air about the debulking. Some of the research shows reduced survival times with debulking alone. So choosing that path really puts you on the parellel path of definative radiation. There was one pooch here, Scout maybe, who didn't debulk and then wished they had. I can say for Sophie its been great! Because she clotted well, and didn't need a transfusion even after all the blood loss - she came through fine. And its been so much easier for her to breathe and be active. I think Dashdog said early on her vet was convinced dogs with nasal or sinus tumors have chronic sinus headaches. That may be the truth because after the tumor (and the pressure on the bones) was out...she really seemed to be doing great. And it bought her some time to get radiation set up (we started 10 days after surgery!)
So thanks again for your kind words...Ill keep you updated. I just want to thank you and everyone who participated here (minus the one troll trying to tell everyone how they should put their dogs down) for all the valuable info! And maybe add some if I can.
Hi Sophie's mom- Sophie sounds like your love, as Hardee is mine. Sorry you had to find us here because it really sucks for our babies. It sucks for our finances also, but they are worth it. We are at 50 grand now in 11 months, and I sold my car to pay for Cyberknife radiation. Your husband sounds like a wonderful man also.
I sure hope that radiation is successful for Sophie and that there are not many side effects. We did a different type of radiation, and we didn't have hardly any side effects. We are doing chemo also. Have they given that as an option for Sophie?
We are making the hard decision to stop chemo or not. We have been doing chemo since last Nov, and I don't know how much more Hardee can take. I know that when we stop chemo, the tumor will grow but it is becoming a quality of life issue.
Hey Hardee's Mom! I read your other post about Handome Hardy! He is very lucky to have an awesome human family. Like Sheldon, Hardee is pretty young right? I can't imagine what you must be feeling. But its pretty clear thay Hardee has an AWESOME life. Dogs love their work and doggie friends. I always wished I could have found some kind of work purpose for Sophie. She does like fishing and has been hunting (she's a mutt, but looks like a hound type thing) but she's just not really smart enough to be a working dog. She's a lovable little dufus!
She's doing linear accelerator radiation. There is a cyberknife facility in our area, but its outside the city in Yonkers. We also really liked her oncologist and didn't want to transfer her. She's halfway through with no side effects...no mouth sores or fur loss. They say its coming and there will be one point in her treatment (at the end or just after) we're goingto wish we ddidn't do this. We'll have to bite down hard and nurse her through it. Ugh. Not looking forward to side effects.
We're leaning toward doing a final CT to see how it worked as well. And while her oncologist mentioned chemo is sometimes an option but he said its most often used for symptom relief and tumor control if the radiation doesn't put it into remission. Have you seen the tumor shrink with chemo? Sophie is an oddball in thay she hasn't had real symptoms. One minor bleed in march that never returned and the bump in early June. Minor reverse sneezing - but other than that, we just figured she was aging. We haven't seen any nosebleeds start yet which I guess is a good thing. I can't say for sure if the radiation is working but I am cautiously optimistic. If it doesn't, maybe pallaitive chemo will be next. She's 11 so quality of life is a big concern. She's doing great now but I can see her getting tired of this.
Give Hardee an extra cookie and ear scratch! You are doing the best you can for him and thay makes you the best momma the boy can have! I hope he feels better soon - and the tumor doesn't grow if you give him a break from the chemo. Its a tough thing. I feel your pain.
Yes, Hardee is young. He was 5 years, 4 months when diagnosed, but he's now 6 and we are very grateful for that. Yes, Hardee loves his work and his sports. He got his MACH (master agility champion) in May, and tomorrow we drive 600 miles to his breed (Portuguese Water Dog) water practice and back. I've tried to keep him out of the water since the dreaded diagnosis, but the joy he derives from it, and the subsequent joy it brings me to see him so happy, won out. The water makes the drainage worse and causes nasal infections, so he is on antibiotics most of the time, but his happiness is worth it!
It doesn't matter at all if Sophie is bright enough for work. Her job is to love you and bring you happiness in other ways. She has excelled at her job, and in return, you love her back with all your heart and desperately try to save her life. It's a win, win situation, and she is grateful, I'm sure.
Hardee has had 8 CT scans now. When you do the follow up CT after radiation, try to wait 2-3 months to give the radiation time to work, so you'll truly be able to gauge the progress of what the radiation has accomplished. I hate to be a downer but as far as radiation, I don't know anyone who's tumor was put into remission for very long at all. Hardee's new oncologist that we started with after radiation, said that we should have been doing chemo along with radiation for the best chance to kill the tumor.
It's hard to say if the tumor shrinkage that we saw was from the long term effects of radiation, chemo, or both. Our radiation was last Aug. When we scanned again in Nov, I had them do another biopsy to make sure we were dealing with the same tumor. I regret the second biopsy because it sent the tumor into hyperdrive growth. We scanned again 2 weeks later, and it had grown about 20%. We started chemo that day. When we scanned again the end of January, the tumor was significantly smaller and has stayed that way since, if not gotten a tiny bit smaller. So do I think the chemo is helping? You betcha!
Yes, Hardee is getting tired of it all, and I don't know how much more I can put him through. He's becoming increasingly aggressive with the techs at chemo, and he hates the long drive there and back (700 miles). The techs wrap a leash around his muzzle to protect themselves which causes Hardee's nose to bleed and really upsets me. Trying to get a handle on the nose bleeds has been hard lately.
Cookies and scritches back to your Sophie. Hardee loves his armpits rubbed, so I'll do that as soon as I finish here. Here's hoping that Sophie's radiation side effects are minimal, and that she barely notices them.
Hey Hardee's Mom!
Sorry its taken a while to get back. I'm exhausted from Sophie's treatments! I can only imagine how she is feeling.
She is done with 14 sessions now. And while she wasn't really symptomatic to begin with - all of the symptoms related to the nasal cancer are gone. She hasn't sneezed or reversed sneezed since I don't know when (late last week about.) Her reverse sneezing kicked in after the debulking surgery, but I'm glad its gone. Even though I know its not dangerous, just the sound and look of it really bothers me. Always has, probably always will! Sophie's sneezing was only really apparent just before the debulking surgery, and almost always when we were out walking. She's some kind of scent hound I think and our entire walk her nose is a just a sliver off the pavement.
At the end of this week, she developed some pretty sever oral mucositis. I have her on an oral rinse 3 times a day. I also put her back on tramadol for pain. I can it tell it hurts her though. She barely wants to go out. She just sleeps all day. She drools heavily and her face is always wet. Her gums are so red and ulcerated. I was so worried about her Friday night I brought her to the hospital and had her stay a night in the ICU. After dinner she wouldn't even get up off the floor. They started a course of antibiotics, which has seemed to help. Makes us think one of the sores may be infected - although she has had no fever. It looks like we are going to finish up Thursday with 18 treatments, which is good, but I also know the burn is going to get even worse until the end of next week or the start of the week after. I really really hate seeing her in this kind of pain.
I think at this point, we'll finish up and call her treatments over. They say a lot of owners get to a point where they think how could I have put my dog through this? I'm at that point. Hopefully the symptoms going away means that the tumor will go into remission for at least some time. But after all this, I can't bring her back to the doggie hospital. I just want her to recover and live out her life.
I was going to mention chemo to the oncologist, but at this point, I don't think I will. I will let him know we are done after Thursday.
I'm sorry your boy Hardee is feeling so low on his oncology visits. I've been pretty lucky with Sophie so far...she's such a sweet little dope. Pretty much lets the doctors and nurses do what they want with a waggy tail. They could come at her with a bone saw and she'd give 'em kisses. I hope that lasts through the last 4 days!
By the way, that's really awful about the tumor growing after the second biopsy. Ugh. I heard from our oncologist that debulking the nasal tumor could send distant metastases into hyperdrive growth if she had any. I was pretty worried about that. Apparently the primary tumor hogs the amino acid (??) resources (or something like that...I'm not in any way a chemist!) and if removed can free up other tumors to grow. I would freak out with guilt if that ends up happening. But from her exam Friday - her lungs still sound ok and her lymph nodes still feel ok. Its been a month almost since the debulking. So hopefully it will be ok.
I wish you continued luck with the chemo. Has Hardee had bad side effects from the chemo or no? Just general fatigue from the long drive up there? This whole radiation experience is making me wonder if I should have gone the palliative radiation or chemo route.
Hang in there! The roller coaster ride continues....
Hi Sophie's Mom- Well by now Sophie should be done with radiation if you finished all 18 treatments. I hope like hell she is not in too much pain and that she is actually feeling better. I know you said it will get worse before it gets better, but we'll keep our fingers and paws crossed that is not the case.
Yes, Hardee had some problems with certain chemos. Doxorubicin and epirubicin put him in the hospital. I gave each of them one shot, months apart, but after the bad reaction to both we didn't do them anymore. I had to stick to carboplatin and mitoxantrone, which he tolerated just fine as long as he got ALL his anti-nausea and anti-diarrhea meds until he had been on them for numerous months. Then he started to have reactions no matter what we gave or how many meds we gave trying to ward off the side effects. We stopped chemo a little over a month ago.
Yes, the roller coaster continues. Let me know how Sophie is doing, and I wish you both all the best!
Jen
Hey Jen,
Yes we are done radiation thank goodness! Sophers made it to the end! The course of antibiotics really helped. After the night in the ICU she really perked up and started acting like my happy doggie again. When she had her final exam the doctor said he thought he looked great. He said he could smell the tell tale smell of nasal tumor irradiation. He also said her nasal passages were totally clear and air flow strong. We'll probably repeat the CT scan in 2-3 months to see what it looks like. He said sarcomas tend to respond better to carcinomas anyway to Rt, but since it was diagnosed as an undifferentiated sarcoma, and would couldn't tell the originating cells or mechanism - we're basically just crossing our fingers. But so far he is really pleased with the treatment results.
She did have some nasal mucous coming out the last couple days. But its mostly stopped now. Not long stringy stuff, and it was very light (one wipe a day) so I'm not too worried. Her mouth continues to show burns, but with the tramadol, oral rinse and the rest after her treatments ended she is back to eating her normal way. The drool has reduced but isnt gone yet. I can tell it still hurts her though.
If I had it to do all over again, I would have looked at the cyberknife a little closer. We just didn't want to transfer her after she got on so well with the oncologist at NYC Veterinary Specialists (Dr. Joshua Lachowitz, he is wonderful!) But everything you read tells you the side effects are tolerable, will pass etc. etc. I guess techically that's all true but this was my first experience with RT and when you actually see your dog so miserable...its painful and heartbreaking. Had I know this I prolly would have scraped together the cyberknife money.
So are you guys stopping chemo for good, or just letting him recover for a while? I take it surgery isn't an option like with most nasal tumors in the connective tissue. Just reading about Hardee is so sad because he is such a young healthy dog. And you guys do SO much for him. Its so obvious how much you love him. Whatever you guys do, it will be the right decision. Have you looked into any clinical trials? New drugs or chemo drugs? Has he been on any steroids? Some people have had tumor ontrol that way. When the radiation is done working I'm going to start Sophie on some Omega 3 suppliments or the budwig protocol. Anything I can do to starve the tumor...I'm willing to try it!
Have the nosebleeds subsided with the chemo? This is what really worries me. If Sophie starts having nosebleeds maybe we'll look at chemo for symptom control. Like Dashdog said many pages ago....it freaks us out more than the dogs,but I HATE the idea of nosebleeds!
Have a great week and give Hardee some extra armpit scratches. I hope he gets some relief and continues having fun at agility. He really sounds like one special dog...and you sound like a very special human too! I'm thinking about you guys!
Christina
I'm so glad to read that sophie is doing better than your last post, Christina. Her sores will heal soon, and you'll have your baby back to normal (as good as normal can be with nasal cancer).
We are glad we did Cyberknife. When I read what others have gone through, I don't know if I could have done traditional radiation. You all are stronger people than I am, and I probably would have chickened out. It did not rid Hardee of his tumor, but it shrank it tremendously.
We are coming up on our one year mark. Aug 1, 2010 was the day I saw the horrible drainage coming from Hardee's nose, and Aug 10th was when we got our dreaded diagnosis. We are thrilled with this extra time that we have had with Hardee and would do anything for him.
For now we have stopped chemo. We might rethink our decision in a couple months, but we really want Hardee to have one last good summer doing his water work for his breed. His water work and agility are his 2 favorite things, and he goes absolutely nuts to work when we get on the back of the boat. We leave later this week for a water trial in No. Cal. where Hardee will compete. We've taken the summer off from agility (too hot for Hardee now), but we'll start back letting him run the end of Aug.
Surgery isn't an option because of where the tumor has spread. It is in too much structure. We could have done a debulking surgery, but after we did a second biopsy and it caused the tumor to start growing aggressively, I said no one will ever touch that tumor again.
We still have Hardee on cyclophosphamide and peroxicam. He gets each every other day, instead of daily because of the ulcer they caused. We still treat the ulcer daily. He also gets an antibiotic daily trying to control the drainage. He also gets DHA, K9 Immumity or CAS Options, and Claritin for his allergies. No steroids. They talked to me about putting him on a low dose to see if that would help with the drainage, but I chose the daily antibiotics first. Hardee also does a high protein diet.
I can't say the chemo has stopped the nose bleeds, but after we started chemo we went months (maybe around 6 months?) without a bleed, but they have started back occasionally.
Thank you for the good week wishes. Back at you and Sophie. We will have a good week because we'll be spending time with our boy, letting him do what he loves and brings him joy, thus bringing us joy. You are a fabulous mom too, and Sophie is blessed to have you, and you Sophie! Give her some belly rubs from me.
Jen
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