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I would say that the vast majority of folks that are caring for dogs with nasal cancer that post on this list are simply trying to enhance the quality of life that is left to their pet without inflicting pain, suffering and harm. When the time is right, when quality of life begins to go down to the point that it interferes with being a normal happy dog, we euthanize our pets out of love and care. Many of us deal with potential pain with low doses of narcotic medication to avoid sinus headaches and the like. My dog Ginger lived roughly 6 months post diagnosis (roughly a year from the first symptom) behaving like a happy and healthy dog (save some nose bleeds) until the last two to three days when we knew that she was at the end of the road and it was time to give her our undivided attention, a really good day and then to say goodbye. A year in the life of a dog is a long time to chase balls, go for walks and be loved by their family.
Even those that go for more aggressive therapy such as radiation and surgery (dogs do fine with most chemotherapy, chemo isn't cruel but it also isn't usually very helpful with this particular disease) are trading a few days or weeks of possible trauma for often a year or more of good quality life for their pet. For those with the facilities, the means and the proper early stage of disease, aggressive therapy isn't cruel but done out of concern for the welfare of their pet.
Bottom line, we each make choices based upon our circumstances and out of love and concern for our pet's best welfare as you did, though the choices will be necessarily different based upon conditions of each person, the type and advancement of disease and their pet. There is no moral superiority in anyone's path, it isn't about courage or selflessness, it's about love and there is no judging that accurately from the outside.
I do not think you can judge those of us who got treatment for our dogs as being selfish. Yes had Dash's cancer been advanced when we found it I would not have done treatment but his was found early. At that point he was restless at night and doing alot of reverse sneezing. I opted for Palliative IMRT ( radiation) followed by metronomic theraphy.
Did I think it would cure him? NO but palliative care is about comfort. The IMRT did not cause any bad side effects but it did buy him more comfort and more time. He was able to sleep again at night and he enjoyed just being a 'normal' dog again. Most people that saw Dash did not know anything was wrong with him. Do I think he had headaches during that period no and once the cancer became active again and started to grown he was put on low doses of tramadol besides the piroxicam that he got as part of his metronomic therapy.
The piroxicam also had the added benefit of helping out his old joints as being an older dog that had done agility he had been a bit stiff and when he started on the piroxicam he suddenly was feeling like an young pup again and living up to his name Dash.
Radiation especially the newer forms like IMRT and the Cyberknife do not cause alot of discomfort and they can destroy the tumor so the dog can have many months or even a few years of good quality of life.When you are talking about a life span of say 14 years another year is a long time. I feel if the cancer is not too advanced and you can afford it and have a dog that can tolerate the treatment that no you are not being selfish.
I am curious do you feel the same way about humans getting treatment for cancer when it is known that they are terminal and that treatment will only buy them more time? Before you answer consider the fact that the only thing we all do have is time.
Do I feel the same way about people who have terminal cancer. I think, is the question. Well, my father had cancer and died in alot of pain, and lived with pain on and off, after undergoing all the conventional medical methods. Dogs can't necessarily tell you about their pain. My mother died of leukemia, her too utilizing the conventional methods. I had to authorize the discontinuance of her life support. My brother also died of cancer, two weeks after he was diagnosed, at age 51 with no treatment. So, who was better off? My brother! Why? Because his last few years were fun-filled. He didn't have to go through all of those doctors appointments and horrible radiation and chemo. treatments. Did he have pain...only for a few short weeks. His quality of life was SOOOOOOO much better. The treatment makes a person more comfortable, yes, but only for some of the time. If chemo. and radiation could cure, sure great, but all it does is lead to more suffering most of the time. I would not have wanted that for my brother, nor for my dog. Yes, time is all we have, but it's the quality of that time that's important. Prolonging life and suffering for humans or animals is just selfish and self serving because it is us who would be in pain without those we love. Would you want to suffer? At least you can answer. Dogs cannot. Let your dogs go in peace.
Not to be cruel, but it's all about you..I I I I. Why "..more pain pills..."? "that I felt needed to say goodbye.." etc. etc. etc.
I had taken Dash to the vet when his facial swelling started opening up and had said I would bring him back that Saturday to put him down. Turns out Saturday was not a good day because I had a work related class so would have had to come home grab him and rush to the vets to get there before they closed..did not seem right to me so I called and asked for more pain pills and antibiotics and said I was not quite ready yet. There were still people that I felt needed to say good bye to him and things he and I needed to do and I did not have the feeling in my gut that he was quite ready so I waited. I had him another 2 weeks. I am so glad I listened to my gut as we got to do everything I felt he should do and he did not appear to be in any pain despite the fact the swelling had opened up he still wanted to go places with me and still showed a real interest in life. Then I saw a change where that spark finally started to dull and I knew he was ready. I even confirmed it with an animal communicator that only knew his name, age, breed and how long I had him. Without knowing he had nasal cancer she told me that he was fearing a big nose bleed and that he was ready to leave before that nose bleed happened. She then told me to sit quietly with him and to listen with my heart to what he had to say and when I tried that I then knew without a doubt it was time. At the vets it was like he knew why we were there and he was OK with it and I tell you that made such a difference for me. Yes, I was very sad and miss him but I also had a calm peace as I knew he was ready and I was ready and that made saying good bye not as difficult and I have had no regrets because I know in my heart that it was the right day. I found myself comforting the girls at the vets telling them it was Ok that he was ready rather then them doing that to me They all knew what he meant to me and I think they thought I was going to be a basket case and perhaps need meds but instead I was at peace with it.
I am sorry that you have had so many bad experiences with Cancer and I will admitt that you and I will never see eye to eye on the subject which is fine as we are individuals and allowed our own opinions.I do find it somewhat cruel to come on a post where people are using treatment and telling them they are selfish based on your experiences with cancer. All experiences with any disease are different so don't assume that everyone undergoing treatment is suffering. Cancer treatments have advanced alot over the past few years and are not as horrific as they once may have been.
My mom died of lung cancer. She had chemo and Tarceva. Was she is pain no but at the end the fatigue got to be too much for her as she had always been an active person so she stopped treatment. She was stage 4 so knew she could not beat the cancer. Did she regret ever starting chemo...no as it gave her 2.5 years to do things.Most of that was a very good quality time so she got to say good bye and wrap up her life.By the way her death was very peaceful and in some ways beautiful. Her sister died of Ovarian cancer much the same way after several years of treatment and she too managed to enjoy the time she had. I also have a friend that had lymphoma and had a real battle during her treatment that was over 5 years ago and she is doing great.Is she sorry she opted for treatment ...no. So not all cancer cases are as horrific as you make them sound.
Yes I realize there are alot of I's in my comments about Dash but that is because it is my experiences and feelings since he could not talk. I will say during his final two weeks he never acted like a dog in pain. He was not panting like dogs in pain do , he was sleeping and not pacing at night he did not with pull away from my touch which was frequent since I was applying a raw honey dressing to the area. He was always eager to go places so yes I do think HE enjoyed seeing all his human and dog friends at his play group one last time and I do think he enjoyed the car ride to my dad's and seeing everyone there one last time.
He got pain meds because the VET felt there might be some pain but I think the cancer or infection had destroyed the nerve to that side of his face as never once did he act like he was in pain if I touched his face, never did he growl and he ran around acting like himself. I can compare that to the time he had bladder stones as he would not move, would not eat, panted like crazy so yes I knew within minutes of seeing him that he was in pain, not so with during those final weeks of his cancer so I do not agree with you as I do not feel he suffered. If you do I am sorry about that but then again you were not here with him I was.
As I said I do support hospice care for humans and animals.With pain meds on board just in case I was wrong about the pain I do not feel my dog suffered. And while yes it was his life, his death I think you also have to be ready to say goodbye and if you can keep someone comfortable while it takes you a few days to accept it then that is OK as it is YOU that is left behind and grief can destroy lives and feeling guilty or second guessing things because you were not ready can lead to major grief.
Despite what you have said to me I will end by saying I have NO regrets because I feel in my heart that what I did for Dash was correct for both he and I. Sorry you can not see it that way but I do and I was here you were not so that is the end of my discussion.
To all others going through this Follow your own heart not some one elses as what your gut tells you to do is correct for YOUR situation.
Dashdog:
It was you who brought up the comparison to humans and dogs, not me. The "VET felt that Dash was in pain", but not you? Okay, whatever. Dogs who have cancer are very likely to be in pain. Why drag out the suffering? People follow your BRAINS, not YOUR HEART in making the decision. End the suffering for your poor dog.
i have no need to explain my behavior with tillie to anyone and don't quite get your hostile better-than-thou attitude. however, had i seen a tumor the size of a cauliflower in tillie's mouth i, too, would have acted.
Do I feel the same way about people who have terminal cancer. I think, is the question. Well, my father had cancer and died in alot of pain, and lived with pain on and off, after undergoing all the conventional medical methods. Dogs can't necessarily tell you about their pain. My mother died of leukemia, her too utilizing the conventional methods. I had to authorize the discontinuance of her life support. My brother also died of cancer, two weeks after he was diagnosed, at age 51 with no treatment. So, who was better off? My brother! Why? Because his last few years were fun-filled. He didn't have to go through all of those doctors appointments and horrible radiation and chemo. treatments. Did he have pain...only for a few short weeks. His quality of life was SOOOOOOO much better. The treatment makes a person more comfortable, yes, but only for some of the time. If chemo. and radiation could cure, sure great, but all it does is lead to more suffering most of the time. I would not have wanted that for my brother, nor for my dog. Yes, time is all we have, but it's the quality of that time that's important. Prolonging life and suffering for humans or animals is just selfish and self serving because it is us who would be in pain without those we love. Would you want to suffer? At least you can answer. Dogs cannot. Let your dogs go in peace.
As someone who lost a mother to cancer, I can totally relate to what you're saying. I truly believe the treatment killed her sooner.
I seriously doubt that I would have treatment myself---it would depend on the type of cancer and the stage it was caught.
While I would never treat a pet for cancer, I would never judge anyone who chooses to treat their pets.
I sure didn't judge my mother for having hope when there was no hope.
I think few people can just toss up their hands and accept that death is eminent.
First, I want to tell Arlene how sorry I am to hear about Tillie. It breaks my heart to read about another family having to say goodbye to their beloved dogs. Just remember all the good times you had and know you did the right thing for Tillie. I am sending you a big hug form one grieving mother to another.
Second, to Happy, who exactly do you think you are passing judgement on anyone else????? Everyone here wants to do the right thing for their pet and you have no right telling them anything different. This post is here to support people and share different treatment options. I don't think anyone is doing treatments for their pets to see them in pain. From reading the posts from people that have said goodbye, they have done it out of love and I'm sure they would have rather kept going but knew that their dogs were ready to go. I am very thankful for everyone here. They all helped me through a very difficult time and thanks to them I know what to expect and how to handle things once they did come. I personally did not undergo treatment for buddy, not because I didn't want to, but because by the time the cancer was found it was to aggressive and that was not an option. I probably would have if they found it earlier and if something might have worked. They are coming up with new medicines and treatments everyday, so maybe a little radiation or chemo could give a pet enough time for them to find a cure. So I personally think if you don't have anything nice or supportive to say then maybe you shouldn't post anything else. To eveyone else that feels treatment is the right course of action them do it and do not listen to anyone else. Everyone has to do what is right for them and NO one has a right to judge their decision.
I want to thank Jan again for starting this post, like I said before I was so happy to find a place where I could go and people understood what I was going through. You all helped me more than you know and know that I am here saying prayers for you all. Big hugs to everyone going through this and who have said goodbye to a family member.
I wasn't addressing you. I wasn't judging you, either. RELAX. I was responding to Dashdog who has been writing about this nasal cancer in dogs subject for two years. Apparently, HOPES is the only one who understands what I am saying.
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To Dashdog
They all knew what he meant to me and I think they thought I was going to be a basket case and perhaps need meds but instead I was at peace with it.
