Dayton Ohio: Does it still suck there? (Cleveland, Springfield: condos, neighborhood)

[JefferyT]

I would argue that The Greene has had negligible impact on downtown Dayton since it's businesses have been siphoned off to the suburbs long ago.

... I think the preception is The Greene is replacing the Oregon District as a nightlife/reastuarant area . It might also be competetive for housing for the affluent, single, young adult demographic.

[wrightflyer]

Speaking of The Greene sucking places dry, is it just me, or is the Mall at Fairfield Commons also bleeding stores like crazy? I know some of it is corporate downsizing, but that is due to unprofitable stores, which stems from low foot traffic at the mall. Basically, the mall can't support the store, so the company, which is suffering because of it closes that store.

It started with J.Crew and Banana Republic leaving (the latter for The Greene). Then Wilson's Leather went under, followed by Talbot's (Greene), Eddie Bauer (Greene), Ann Taylor (Greene/Re-organization) and then lately, Godiva, Williams-Sonoma, Lady Footlocker, and Express Men, which closed quitely. The last one shocked me as Express is not overly pricey for the product like Williams-Sonoma, and it seemed to happen so suddenly and after the holiday's, when mall stores tend to close shop if under performing. Another shock is that the women's store next to it is still open. I also haven't heard any problems with the Express Company (based in Columbus and a former member of Lex Wexner's Limited Brands) so I am rather shocked. Maybe I have it mixed up and they are just remodeling? However, they aren't on the mall's directory any longer. Another surprising factor is the fact that Fairfield has all 5 anchors filled, while The Greene only has one, and a high-end one at that.

My hypothesis is that stores that aren't found at every mall will continue to bleed out of Fairfield Commons. There isn't enough demand to warrent two high-end malls in a metro with just under a million people. It wouldn't surprise me if Brookstone is next, or The Limited, or Gap. These stores tend to follow each other and their sister companies (Gap owns Banana Republic). Also, they can break their leases if enough high end, similar stores (J. Crew, Williams-Sonoma, Brookstone) leave. Finally, it wouldn't surprise me to see Express open both men's and women's stores at The Greene within a year or two, Gap and The Limited as well.

As much as I like The Greene, as it is much better looking than a power center which could have landed on that site, it saddens me to see Fairfield Commons start to fail.

End retail rant.

[prfcttimeofday]

Originally Posted by wrightflyer

Speaking of The Greene sucking places dry, is it just me, or is the Mall at Fairfield Commons also bleeding stores like crazy? I know some of it is corporate downsizing, but that is due to unprofitable stores, which stems from low foot traffic at the mall. Basically, the mall can't support the store, so the company, which is suffering because of it closes that store.

It started with J.Crew and Banana Republic leaving (the latter for The Greene). Then Wilson's Leather went under, followed by Talbot's (Greene), Eddie Bauer (Greene), Ann Taylor (Greene/Re-organization) and then lately, Godiva, Williams-Sonoma, Lady Footlocker, and Express Men, which closed quitely. The last one shocked me as Express is not overly pricey for the product like Williams-Sonoma, and it seemed to happen so suddenly and after the holiday's, when mall stores tend to close shop if under performing. Another shock is that the women's store next to it is still open. I also haven't heard any problems with the Express Company (based in Columbus and a former member of Lex Wexner's Limited Brands) so I am rather shocked. Maybe I have it mixed up and they are just remodeling? However, they aren't on the mall's directory any longer. Another surprising factor is the fact that Fairfield has all 5 anchors filled, while The Greene only has one, and a high-end one at that.

My hypothesis is that stores that aren't found at every mall will continue to bleed out of Fairfield Commons. There isn't enough demand to warrent two high-end malls in a metro with just under a million people. It wouldn't surprise me if Brookstone is next, or The Limited, or Gap. These stores tend to follow each other and their sister companies (Gap owns Banana Republic). Also, they can break their leases if enough high end, similar stores (J. Crew, Williams-Sonoma, Brookstone) leave. Finally, it wouldn't surprise me to see Express open both men's and women's stores at The Greene within a year or two, Gap and The Limited as well.

As much as I like The Greene, as it is much better looking than a power center which could have landed on that site, it saddens me to see Fairfield Commons start to fail.

End retail rant.

I think the greene gets a lot of heat for some of these stores closing and I'm sure it plays a part, but I think another factor that is being overlooked is the role that the 'cincinnati' premium outlets is playing. A lot of those stores...j crew, banana etc. are opening up factory outlet stores at CPO and CPO is located closer to Dayton than Cincy....for people in the south suburbs of Dayton. . .the time it takes to get to CPO is probably pretty close to the time it would take to get to the Fairfield Commons..

[JefferyT]

Fairfield Commons is a pretty nice mall since its two stories and has a lot of natural lighting, so it seems spacious, light, and airy. But, yeah, the retail mix isn't as good as it was when it first opened.

I think Fairfield Commons and Polaris were the last two convetional malls built in Ohio before the lifestyle center trend took off. So they are or were state-of-the-art for that building type before the change.

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by JefferyT

I think Fairfield Commons and Polaris were the last two convetional malls built in Ohio before the lifestyle center trend took off. So they are or were state-of-the-art for that building type before the change.

Just a bit of retail history, Tuttle Crossing in Columbus opened between the two in '97. Unlike Polaris and Fairfield, it wasn't built by Glimcher, but by high end mall owner Taubman Properties. It was then sold to Miller, who was later bought by REIT giant Simon. Tuttle reminds me of Fairfield Commons in many ways. Both are well kept, have natural lighting, have/had a good mix of stores, and are two stories. The trend towards town center style development, at least in Ohio and possibly nationally, took off with the success of Easton, which opened it's first phase in '99 followed by the North "Fashion" End in '01/'02. For reference, Polaris opened in 2001.

[JefferyT]

^
Ah, ok, thanks...where is Tuttle Crossing? I want to go there next time in Cols.

[SmartGXL]

Originally Posted by wrightflyer

Just a bit of retail history, Tuttle Crossing in Columbus opened between the two in '97. Unlike Polaris and Fairfield, it wasn't built by Glimcher, but by high end mall owner Taubman Properties. It was then sold to Miller, who was later bought by REIT giant Simon. Tuttle reminds me of Fairfield Commons in many ways. Both are well kept, have natural lighting, have/had a good mix of stores, and are two stories. The trend towards town center style development, at least in Ohio and possibly nationally, took off with the success of Easton, which opened it's first phase in '99 followed by the North "Fashion" End in '01/'02. For reference, Polaris opened in 2001.

There is actually a mall (I mean, lifestyle center) out in the West Burbs of Chicago (minus the upstairs apartments) that I believe was the first one in the country, it was always very successful. It is called Oakbrook Circle.

[Daytonnatian]

Originally Posted by JefferyT

^
Ah, ok, thanks...where is Tuttle Crossing? I want to go there next time in Cols.

Doo-blin......

Exit 15 off I-270. Very nice mall itself with a strong business community surrounding it (Nationwide and other stuff). Something to note is a general lack of strip centers surrounding the mall itself.

That would be about 6 miles North of I-70 on the West side of Cols- Crew Chief

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by SmartGXL

There is actually a mall (I mean, lifestyle center) out in the West Burbs of Chicago (minus the upstairs apartments) that I believe was the first one in the country, it was always very successful. It is called Oakbrook Circle.

You are right. I forgot about Oakbrook Circle. Just curious though, was it an indoor mall at first and then they ripped off the roof, or was it always outdoor?

[Billy from Dayton]

^ Oakbrook Center (did you mean?) didn't have a roof as far back as the early 90's and I don't believe it ever had one. Definitely the most upper-scale mall in the burbs when I lived there. Ironically, River Oaks in Calumet City (my old stomping grounds) was originally an outdoor mall that looked very much like an old version of The Greene (again minus the upstairs apartments) until they finally decided in the mid 90's that an outdoor mall doesn't make sense in the Chicago climate and they spent millions on retrofitting it with a roof to look more like a traditional mall... before the term "lifestyle mall" had been born, of course.

Oh wait, this post is about Dayton still sucking or something...