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Masks have a larger impact on others than they do yourself. This is bad reasoning.
No, this is perfectly good reasoning. There's a reason we don't ban guns either even if it is more likely to kill others than to kill you. The constitution says we're not allowed to.
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Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost
Just like with vaccines, the level of protection in a group of people who are all wearing masks is exponentially higher than in a group of people where only half of people are wearing masks.
It doesn't matter. You don't get to shred the foundational principles of this country to make yourself feel marginally safer. This virus has a 99.9X% survival rate. The marginal difference is irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost
Until the vaccines are approved in young children, masks should be required.
Absolutely not. Absent an official diagnosis for COVID, you are free to go about your day without government interference, including not wearing a mask if you choose. If parents feel unsafe sending their kids to school, they're free to keep them in a hermetically sealed bubble. Forcing hundreds of kids to do something, and forcing already overworked teachers to enforce that something, is not a reasonable accommodation for your fear of a disease that has a statistically irrelevant chance of death or serious illness in minors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost
I'm curious: Let's say I had TB. Should I be allowed to go wherever I want, sans mask, infecting other people? Should the government pass a law preventing me from doing so? This clearly seems like a "Fire!" in a crowded theatre situation.
Absent an official diagnosis for TB, yes, you're absolutely allowed to go wherever you want and go about your day sans mask, even if you are out infecting people. You are presumed healthy until proven otherwise. Government absolutely does not have the right to lock you up on suspicion of TB alone.
This is NOTHING like a yelling Fire in a crowded theater. That's actually a crime, and the government does not have the right to lock you up because you MIGHT yell Fire in a crowded theater. They can only restrict your rights AFTER you have been tried and convicted of doing so in a court of law by a jury of your peers in compliance with all due process requirements.
"Presumably healthy" doesn't really exist in a pandemic.
No, everyone is presumed healthy until proven otherwise. End of Story. "Pandemic" is the new "National Security" or "Terrorism" now that no one cares about terrorism anymore. Enough is enough. If I'm allowed to refuse life-saving treatment even if it means I die, people are free to do what they want without government interference absent proof that they have actually done harm to others.
People do not have a right to infect other people. Your freedom ends where an innocent, unprotected person’s (children under 12, immune compromised people who couldn’t vax or didn’t get a strong antibody response from vax) freedom begins.
And “just stay home if you’re scared” is not a valid response. Most school districts cannot afford to offer virtual without state funding. Most working parents cannot just quit their jobs to homeschool their kids. Unprotected people should not be made prisoners because of the “freedum” crew’s selfishness.
Want real freedom for everyone? Then get your vax and wear your damn mask so we can put this pandemic behind us and stop giving variants a chance to thrive.
They don’t? Because up to Covid that’s all people did with germs was infect others. It’s not optional, it’s mandatory.
Masks have a larger impact on others than they do yourself. This is bad reasoning.
Just like with vaccines, the level of protection in a group of people who are all wearing masks is exponentially higher than in a group of people where only half of people are wearing masks.
Until the vaccines are approved in young children, masks should be required. Once vaccines are approved, they should be required. Freeloaders can stay home.
I'm curious: Let's say I had TB. Should I be allowed to go wherever I want, sans mask, infecting other people? Should the government pass a law preventing me from doing so? This clearly seems like a "Fire!" in a crowded theatre situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost
"Presumably healthy" doesn't really exist in a pandemic.
And the HIV example is silly and not analagous. HIV isn't spread through casual contact. If you are in a position to get HIV from someone, you've taken deliberate action and have accepted that risk. Covid is wildly different.
That's a solid couple of posts.
What we know is vaccine skeptics are almost exclusively driving a really scary increase in covid hospitalizations locally........Parkland reopened it's sequestered covid area and declared an emergency yesterday. A few weeks ago Parkland had ~15 covid patients, yesterday 88 and they expect that number may double in a few days. An uptick in deaths will follow.
Since Feb. fewer than a dozen Parkland covid patents were previously vaccinated. Roughly 3,000 were not. The math is stark, undeniable and we are about to all pay a very heavy price for the intellectual intransigence of about half of our brother and sister Texans.
My personal favorite is the shortwave radio and internet trope claiming that mRNA vaccines are really gene altering therapies.
People do not have a right to infect other people. Your freedom ends where an innocent, unprotected person’s (children under 12, immune compromised people who couldn’t vax or didn’t get a strong antibody response from vax) freedom begins.
And “just stay home if you’re scared” is not a valid response. Most school districts cannot afford to offer virtual without state funding. Most working parents cannot just quit their jobs to homeschool their kids. Unprotected people should not be made prisoners because of the “freedum” crew’s selfishness.
Want real freedom for everyone? Then get your vax and wear your damn mask so we can put this pandemic behind us and stop giving variants a chance to thrive.
So, I guess my body, my right…is only for women who’s in favor of abortion? You people are crazy! You cannot make anyone do anything. Vaccines DO NOT stop the spread of COVID. Just goes to show how brainwashed people are. Didn’t they say once you get the vaccine…you can go back to normal life? That was another lie.
So, you are in favor of letting the government tell people what to do with their own health? That’s not American, that’s a communist-like government! So, are you in favor of vaccine mandates too?!
Let’s not forget the millions of ppl coming through the border. If COVID was really a concern the Biden Administration would do something about it!
Im getting ready to become even more unpopular but here goes.
So much of this is a fools errand. We arent going to stop this. Covid will be with us for years and years to come. I look at people who think they can stop it like I look at politicians who say "I can unite the country". Nobody can unite the country. We are so divided that all hope is dead of us every being united. Its hopeless, so theres no need to pretend otherwise. Covid is like that because its going to do what viruses do: move from person to person until it runs out of people to go through. The only way to stop it would be a worldwide lockdown for 3 weeks where everyone is frozen in an isolated place and that will never happen so its hopeless. We just have to learn to live with it.
Im all for getting vaxxed. I got mine as soon as I could even though I had already had Covid. Im all for efforts to encourage vaccination even if that includes paying people to get it. I also go to Walgreens and test myself every two weeks just to be sure.
But were in a balancing act. We have to thread the needle between Australia where the phrase "this should never be happening in a democracy" doesnt begin to cover it and the anti-vax crowd.
So where does that leave us? Frankly, life is about risks. Everything you do has a risk associated with it. For example, getting in your car to go to the store and jumping out of an airplane with no parachute both have risks attached to them. However, the risks are minimal driving to the store so we all do it where as jumping out of an airplane without a parachute would lead to almost certain death so almost no one does that. That means, assuming youre not of the anti-vax/denalist variety, you must look at yourself and determine your risk to transmission and contraction. For me, Im not much of a risk to either because Ive had it and Ive had the Pfizer vax. If I somehow get it again, I would go into quarantine and if a place requires a mask, Ill wear one. Otherwise, Im living a normal life which means going out to eat, being around people, flying on plane, and most of it I wont be wearing a mask.
Assess your risk and go with it. Get vaxxed if you havent and go on with life.
So, I guess my body, my right…is only for women who’s in favor of abortion? You people are crazy! You cannot make anyone do anything. Vaccines DO NOT stop the spread of COVID. Just goes to show how brainwashed people are. Didn’t they say once you get the vaccine…you can go back to normal life? That was another lie.
So, you are in favor of letting the government tell people what to do with their own health? That’s not American, that’s a communist-like government! So, are you in favor of vaccine mandates too?!
Let’s not forget the millions of ppl coming through the border. If COVID was really a concern the Biden Administration would do something about it!
Vaccines not stopping covid transmission isn't a legitimate reason to avoid vaccination. You are playing arithmetic with an algebra problem as it were.
Vaccines not stopping covid transmission isn't a legitimate reason to avoid vaccination. You are playing arithmetic with an algebra problem as it were.
Why would I take a vaccine that’s experimental and doesn’t stop COVID!?
This Country was founded on the principle of freedom! We can do what we want under the law. You people have literally been brainwashed by the left and it’s scary that you think this is ok. At first y’all made it seem like republicans are the one’s who trying to be dictatorial…but over the last 8 months, it is clear that it’s the democrats. I make it no secret on this forum that I’m a independent…and many people who are like me are saying the same thing! America is free! If you want to wear a mask and take that vaccine…that’s your right, but don’t force it on to other people.
Im getting ready to become even more unpopular but here goes.
So much of this is a fools errand. We arent going to stop this. Covid will be with us for years and years to come. I look at people who think they can stop it like I look at politicians who say "I can unite the country". Nobody can unite the country. We are so divided that all hope is dead of us every being united. Its hopeless, so theres no need to pretend otherwise. Covid is like that because its going to do what viruses do: move from person to person until it runs out of people to go through. The only way to stop it would be a worldwide lockdown for 3 weeks where everyone is frozen in an isolated place and that will never happen so its hopeless. We just have to learn to live with it.
Im all for getting vaxxed. I got mine as soon as I could even though I had already had Covid. Im all for efforts to encourage vaccination even if that includes paying people to get it. I also go to Walgreens and test myself every two weeks just to be sure.
But were in a balancing act. We have to thread the needle between Australia where the phrase "this should never be happening in a democracy" doesnt begin to cover it and the anti-vax crowd.
So where does that leave us? Frankly, life is about risks. Everything you do has a risk associated with it. For example, getting in your car to go to the store and jumping out of an airplane with no parachute both have risks attached to them. However, the risks are minimal driving to the store so we all do it where as jumping out of an airplane without a parachute would lead to almost certain death so almost no one does that. That means, assuming youre not of the anti-vax/denalist variety, you must look at yourself and determine your risk to transmission and contraction. For me, Im not much of a risk to either because Ive had it and Ive had the Pfizer vax. If I somehow get it again, I would go into quarantine and if a place requires a mask, Ill wear one. Otherwise, Im living a normal life which means going out to eat, being around people, flying on plane, and most of it I wont be wearing a mask.
Assess your risk and go with it. Get vaxxed if you havent and go on with life.
I agree that at some level we will have to allow covid to fade into the background. The trick is to not wreck our medical system and needless kill many while it does so.
Why would I take a vaccine that’s experimental and doesn’t stop COVID!?
This Country was founded on the principle of freedom! We can do what we want under the law. You people have literally been brainwashed by the left and it’s scary that you think this is ok. At first y’all made it seem like republicans are the one’s who trying to be dictatorial…but over the last 8 months, it is clear that it’s the democrats. I make it no secret on this forum that I’m a independent…and many people who are like me are saying the same thing! America is free! If you want to wear a mask and take that vaccine…that’s your right, but don’t force it on to other people.
Again with the games.
At this point the vaccines are experimental in name only.
"Stopping" covid is a false requirement per the vaccines. In the aggregate the vaccines slow covid transmission, lessen impacts on people, save lives and may help us save our medical system.
I'm probably a bigger Jeffersonian Liberal (big L) than you are. The rights we have - have been paid for in wisdom, blood - literally, and real sacrifice. Being vaccinated is a tiny price to pay relative to others. To that logic Jefferson most likely - Adams and several other founders and their families for sure inoculated themselves with live smallpox in order to save themselves and the country.
Finally, no one, yet anyway, is forcing you to do anything. I'm trying to converse you out of the logical boxes you are stuck in.
There is no question the political left is using covid as a tool. Be better than them, because right now you are doing the same thing.
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