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"The council generally supported the idea the site should be developed in phases, specifically beginning with the office complex, instead of the entire site — an idea presented by the Hallmark-Seacoast bid. Staff also received interest from a local developer interested in building a hotel on the site, which council agreed was something worth looking into."
This.
There is no reason the project cant be done in phases. An office building and a hotel would be ideal with parking shared as well as some public spaces. I'm betting with a hotel partner, you can lower that $15 million parking deck number.
Staff should go back to the 3 bidders and say...we dont want more student housing, we want a hotel...will you revise your proposal? I know Armada Hofler builds hotels, so thats not unreasonable. Not sure why this is so hard...but maybe the Finance Initiative folks aren't providing very clear direction on this to the Council. Or maybe the council doesnt know what they want.
"The council generally supported the idea the site should be developed in phases, specifically beginning with the office complex, instead of the entire site — an idea presented by the Hallmark-Seacoast bid. Staff also received interest from a local developer interested in building a hotel on the site, which council agreed was something worth looking into."
This.
There is no reason the project cant be done in phases. An office building and a hotel would be ideal with parking shared as well as some public spaces. I'm betting with a hotel partner, you can lower that $15 million parking deck number.
Staff should go back to the 3 bidders and say...we dont want more student housing, we want a hotel...will you revise your proposal? I know Armada Hofler builds hotels, so thats not unreasonable. Not sure why this is so hard...but maybe the Finance Initiative folks aren't providing very clear direction on this to the Council. Or maybe the council doesnt know what they want.
Completely agree. Also, I think the vision of this area (from the city's perspective) has changed since the time the DFI folks were first tasked with coming up with this plan.
This is hard, and it's not hard at the same time. This is THE place that is going to change Greenville's downtown for the next 20+ years. It HAS to be right. This is Greenville's American Tobacco Campus. Getting the concept wrong can mess the whole development up.
At the same time, there's a pretty simple setup that needs to happen. We all understand that this area needs a little bit of everything: The right combination of Office, Market-rate apartments & condos, retail, Hotel & meeting space, and Outdoor civic/park /green space.
I do love the idea of dividing the area up into smaller phases and let developers bid on smaller sections of this giant area. Starting with an office building w/ hotel & conference space next to it would be a great idea.
I'd go back to the developers with the hotel idea as HP suggested, then develop an area on this property to be the civic flex space. This is where you build your farmer's market. This is where you want your beer and food truck festivals. This is where you have a plaza and grassy area for small concerts & festivals (similar to the Durham Central Park or Wilmington's future North Waterfront Park). Host 1st Friday or a summer concert series there during the warmer months. There has to be something to draw people to this area.
office development on the imperial site would be nice, but it's geographically isolated from the rest of the downtown. ideally, office space should be central to capitalize on the spending potential of office workers. make it equally as simple to walk or bike to dickinson avenue public house, luna, ford+shep, etc., as it is to walk or bike to crossbones, starlight, cinnamon, or coastal fog. I get wanting office development uptown (shoot, I want an office uptown), but given the presence of the courthouse, law offices, trillium and the wells fargo building, doesn't it make more sense to locate new office development in the professional sector (if you can call it a sector) of our CBD rather than the arts/entertainment district? if the county is indeed looking to offload those properties, then they can be ripe for development in the medium-term. it also capitalizes on being close to the planned ECU developments along reade circle that we continue to hear about.
now a hotel, that I can get behind on the imperial site.
office development on the imperial site would be nice, but it's geographically isolated from the rest of the downtown. ideally, office space should be central to capitalize on the spending potential of office workers. make it equally as simple to walk or bike to dickinson avenue public house, luna, ford+shep, etc., as it is to walk or bike to crossbones, starlight, cinnamon, or coastal fog. I get wanting office development uptown (shoot, I want an office uptown), but given the presence of the courthouse, law offices, trillium and the wells fargo building, doesn't it make more sense to locate new office development in the professional sector (if you can call it a sector) of our CBD rather than the arts/entertainment district? if the county is indeed looking to offload those properties, then they can be ripe for development in the medium-term. it also capitalizes on being close to the planned ECU developments along reade circle that we continue to hear about.
now a hotel, that I can get behind on the imperial site.
Well, from the corner of Dickinson & Albemarle (where the office unit is proposed), you're looking at less than a 10 minute walk to Winslows & Starlight. 11-12 minutes to Coastal Fog. Not a terrible walk. Also, the city may decide to run a shuttle of some sort as the uptown area becomes more populated. Besides, there are already places along Dickinson and the future developments that will be a 5 minute walk or less. People in the office building will have plenty to pick from.
I get what you're saying, but you can't deny an office building on the Imperial site just to have a few more people go to lunch at Crave or The Scullery from a closer office building. If things proceed how they should, more restaurants & more options will locate in the Dickinson area.
Last edited by michealbond; 02-09-2018 at 10:10 AM..
office development on the imperial site would be nice, but it's geographically isolated from the rest of the downtown. ideally, office space should be central to capitalize on the spending potential of office workers. make it equally as simple to walk or bike to dickinson avenue public house, luna, ford+shep, etc., as it is to walk or bike to crossbones, starlight, cinnamon, or coastal fog. I get wanting office development uptown (shoot, I want an office uptown), but given the presence of the courthouse, law offices, trillium and the wells fargo building, doesn't it make more sense to locate new office development in the professional sector (if you can call it a sector) of our CBD rather than the arts/entertainment district? if the county is indeed looking to offload those properties, then they can be ripe for development in the medium-term. it also capitalizes on being close to the planned ECU developments along reade circle that we continue to hear about.
now a hotel, that I can get behind on the imperial site.
Downtown has expanded...significantly with the Dickinson projects. Greenville is about to be a city of over 100K and is the regional hub. With ECU's presence and all of the new people living downtown, you will have sections of downtown. The Imperial Site (Warehouse district) is at the edge of one section. The Pitt Co stuff is proposed near the Town Common, which is on another edge. ECU sits on another edge. You can look at it like its a Triangle. ECU offices will be near ECU. Trillium/County offices are near the Town Common. Greenville/Imperial site are on the Warehouse edge. I love the idea that there is so much room for redevelopment as we have seen with parking lots and underutilized properties being re-purposed. With the Alumni hotel near ECU, you can add a hotel at the Imperial site...and then try for additional hotel (s) near the Town Common. Greenville is only going to grow and downtown is only so big. The 95% car number is unacceptable. Downtown Greenville needs to have pedestrians/connectivity....and be a destination place for it to thrive. The days of 2 blocks of bars next to ECU are FINALLY gone.
Please, please Council get rid of all the on street surface parking, build decks, build public spaces, build up and put people on widened sidewalks like a real city. Oh, and pay to fix your streets, they look awful.
Downtown has expanded...significantly with the Dickinson projects. Greenville is about to be a city of over 100K and is the regional hub. With ECU's presence and all of the new people living downtown, you will have sections of downtown. The Imperial Site (Warehouse district) is at the edge of one section. The Pitt Co stuff is proposed near the Town Common, which is on another edge. ECU sits on another edge. You can look at it like its a Triangle. ECU offices will be near ECU. Trillium/County offices are near the Town Common. Greenville/Imperial site are on the Warehouse edge. I love the idea that there is so much room for redevelopment as we have seen with parking lots and underutilized properties being re-purposed. With the Alumni hotel near ECU, you can add a hotel at the Imperial site...and then try for additional hotel (s) near the Town Common. Greenville is only going to grow and downtown is only so big. The 95% car number is unacceptable. Downtown Greenville needs to have pedestrians/connectivity....and be a destination place for it to thrive. The days of 2 blocks of bars next to ECU are FINALLY gone.
Please, please Council get rid of all the on street surface parking, build decks, build public spaces, build up and put people on widened sidewalks like a real city. Oh, and pay to fix your streets, they look awful.
HP it won't let me recommend your posts, so just know that I couldn't possibly agree with you more. Downtown needs connectivity badly, and not through personal motorized vehicle. Dockless bike share will be arriving within the next couple of months, helping to increase that, and it will connect our growing districts.
My sole concern with offices at the very edge of the district is that it will turn into a nucleus of its own and needlessly expand. Greenville needs to be building its downtown inward and upward, not out - creating a nucleus; having a multi-story office building on the fringe (to me) cries out for sprawl. The triangle districts of our downtown sounds good, but I see the hub of the Warehouse District being centered around Pitt Street, the Cupola building and new multi-story office/retail construction along Reade Circle. Let the Imperial site be a place for recreation, entertainment, etc. There's so much potential there.
And while Dickinson Ave. needs development, I don't want to see homes on the other side of 10th bulldozed - they've dealt with enough on this connector project.
Any update on how the Uptown theater beside Winslow's is coming along?
They've done some framing with steel beams on the inside. A lot of brickwork was done on the exterior. I will be EXTREMELY surprised if it opens before summer, despite the contract.
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