Cleveland Development Discussions (London, Republic, Florida: health insurance, teaching, careers)

[216facts]

^^^ Yes, such an opportunity lost. With those 10s of thousands of workers, just think of the opportunity to further grow small businesses for restaurants and other small shops, if they had promoted street level foot traffic. Now, everybody drives their car into a fortress parking lot and takes skywalks between the buildings.

There are some good spots, but so much of the architecture is brutalist, particularly along Carnegie. Looks like Cedar will be the same.

[on3]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

"Truly, and it's a free country. I respect your belief on this even though I disagree with it... I similarly hope you respect mine."


I 100% respect your belief...one thing I like about the Cleveland area is there plenty of jobs all over...if you want to work DT, great...if you want the convenience of living in a nice suburb and only have a quick drive to work you most likely have that option too...not everybody wants to be around the crowds of downtown...I don't mind going down for a game at the Jake (sorry, I'm never not calling it that)...or the arena (seems to change it's name every 5 years or so) or a play at playhouse square...but I would not want to have to drive into downtown every day for work (I prefer driving as I'm in control compared to public transit), and then pay to park on top of the gas I already pay for...and still have to walk a decent ways....
My mom is retired now but she did sales work for a company downtown so she had to drive in then go out on appts throughout the day...she hated driving in every day.

Well said.

Not everyone has to live in the city to enjoy the area of Cleveland and it's surrounding suburbs.

It's comical whenever I read responses on this site along the lines of: "That suburb is just a bunch of parking lots and shopping centers and isn't walkable!" and yet the people that live in said suburb feel safe and enjoy it very much than having to live in some much higher crime rate area of Cleveland (to boast about how walkable it is and in the same paragraph brag about public transportation) and in many cases can go to Cleveland whenever they please in 20-30 min. Best of both worlds.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by on3

Well said.

Not everyone has to live in the city to enjoy the area of Cleveland and it's surrounding suburbs.

It's comical whenever I read responses on this site along the lines of: "That suburb is just a bunch of parking lots and shopping centers and isn't walkable!" and yet the people that live in said suburb feel safe and enjoy it very much than having to live in some much higher crime rate area of Cleveland (to boast about how walkable it is and in the same paragraph brag about public transportation) and in many cases can go to Cleveland whenever they please in 20-30 min. Best of both worlds.

People have choices because America is a free country. But it's not, as you imply, that one size fits all or one is better than another. You aren't saying this, directly, but you make the broad implication that Cleveland -- all of it -- has higher crime and that suburbs are better because people have access to good stuff.

But a lifestyle is more than the black 'n white you're painting. Maybe folks like me, or younger folks, want to be where the action is; in a dense, walkable area, where they can walk, bike or scooter from place to place and, yes, ride a bus or train (it seems the pro-suburban, sprawl types have painted mass transit as some kind of dirty, crime-ridden boogeyman. RTA has its problems, in places, but it is generally a quality system of rail and bus, esp compared to cities of Cleveland's similar size and density). Maybe these same folks don't want to live in a car-oriented area where you have to drive to get food, entertainment and services.

And no, all of Cleveland is not crime-ridden, esp the trendy areas (downtown, Ohio City, Larchmere, Tremont, etc), and even though those areas are not crime-free, we know that when a serious crime happens there, a major robbery, burglary or, yes, murder, it gets blown up -- way out of proportion -- in the local media simply because such crimes tend to be rare in these neighborhoods. And it's abundantly clear -- both eyeballs and university studies show it-- the more people, the more boots on the ground in urban neighborhoods -- the less crime is an issue. Do you know that New York City, which is America's ultimate in terms of walkability, car-free/transit-dependent lifestyle, has the lowest crime rate of any American big city? 8 million people and no isolated, car-dependent suburban cul-de-sacs here (within the huge city, that is)... More people --> less crime.

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by 216facts

^^^ Yes, such an opportunity lost. With those 10s of thousands of workers, just think of the opportunity to further grow small businesses for restaurants and other small shops, if they had promoted street level foot traffic. Now, everybody drives their car into a fortress parking lot and takes skywalks between the buildings.

There are some good spots, but so much of the architecture is brutalist, particularly along Carnegie. Looks like Cedar will be the same.

CCF, and University Circle, has been like this since the late '60's. Buying up land as a buffer zone, private police, etc.
However, Cleveland didn't have the best reputation then, and certainly not in that part of town, for safety. It really is a continuation of those 50-year-old policies. Not without some merit, but there should be a way to have urban safety as well as street-level amenities and charm.

[ohioaninsc]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

CCF, and University Circle, has been like this since the late '60's. Buying up land as a buffer zone, private police, etc.
However, Cleveland didn't have the best reputation then, and certainly not in that part of town, for safety. It really is a continuation of those 50-year-old policies. Not without some merit, but there should be a way to have urban safety as well as street-level amenities and charm.

How much more money would it cost the Clinic to do that kind of redesign of its campus? Remember money is not infinite...they clinic tends to put most of its money into it's Human Resources (Doctors and nurses and techs and pharmacists and researchers) and less into its actual buildings...consistently ranked of one of the top hospitals in the world, they are obviously doing many things right w/ the funding they have.

[216facts]

Greater Cleveland Partnership report, for those that like numbers and peer city comparisons.
https://greatercle.com/annualreport2022/

[SlideRules99]

Originally Posted by 216facts

Greater Cleveland Partnership report, for those that like numbers and peer city comparisons.
https://greatercle.com/annualreport2022/

Good data, thanks for sharing. CLE middle of the pack on the economic indicators. Definitely room to grow, although looks like business growth and jobs growth have trended upwards since the last report. 2019-2022 is an odd window due to pandemic effects.

Wonder why Pittsburgh is at or near bottom of the pack on all economic growth measures? Assume it’s because they’ve already had their economic growth spurt, relative to the peers cities, who are closing the gap.

[216facts]

Originally Posted by SlideRules99

Good data, thanks for sharing. CLE middle of the pack on the economic indicators. Definitely room to grow, although looks like business growth and jobs growth have trended upwards since the last report. 2019-2022 is an odd window due to pandemic effects.

Wonder why Pittsburgh is at or near bottom of the pack on all economic growth measures? Assume it’s because they’ve already had their economic growth spurt, relative to the peers cities, who are closing the gap.

Hard to say. We're all in the same basket of post industrial, northern rust belt cities, with few exceptions (Columbus, Minneapolis, Indianapolis). Some times we're up, sometimes we're down. You can always select a favorable timeframe to make your point (Cleveland is rebounding, or Cleveland is sinking.) We can report the positive slope of the curve, or negative slope, depending what point you want to make.

[216facts]

CCF at #2 again, in the World. This is Newsweek. https://www.newsweek.com/rankings/wo...hospitals-2023

I wonder what it would take to oust Mayo. Can't recall that CCF has ever done that.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by 216facts

CCF at #2 again, in the World. This is Newsweek. https://www.newsweek.com/rankings/wo...hospitals-2023

I wonder what it would take to oust Mayo. Can't recall that CCF has ever done that.

I greatly fear that Ohio's abortion restrictions will torpedo the CCF unless a amendment to Ohio's Constitution is passed soon protecting reproductive rights.