Cleveland Development Discussions (Lorain, Euclid, Mentor: middle-class, pollution, trailer)

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Unbelievably, even after 7 months, I can't give you any rep, but this is what we've missed so badly!

Thanks for posting!!!

You're welcome; and thanks, WR...

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Closing a rail line in this day and age is terrible optics, especially for a city that already suffers from a bad reputation. Honestly it reflects poorly on the state even.

RTA should have this ready to go as part of the new federal infrastructure bill.

What other cities have shut down rail service in recent history? Pittsburgh dropped the brown line 5-10 years ago. Any other examples? So many cties are adding rail right now. It's embarrassing for Cleveland to be cutting it.

Sadly it has happened in other cities. Pittsburgh also dropped the Penn Station branch of the T subway (although there is a proposal to reopen it and link it to a reopened Brown (Allentown?) line.) Pittsburgh is also eyeing converting the interurban-ish, semi-rural Library (Silver Line) T branch to buses, which would be a crime.

St. Louis embarrassingly dropped its (St. Louis/University City) Delmar Loop streetcar within 1 year of its opening! It apparently drew few riders, so now it is gone after years of torn-up streets and headaches in the thriving Delmar Loop area... such a waste.

And then there was Chicago in the early 1980s... They demolished the last mile or so, end of the Jackson Park Green Line L, the oldest L line in the system -- just a few years after Federal funds were expended to renovate the Jackson Park terminal!

So no, RTA is not alone in US urban rail-line incompetence. But this is cold comfort. How can a rail bridge be dangerous and physically obsolete after less than 25 years!? -- highway bridges have longer lifespans than this. I would think the engineering firm that designed the bridge is liable for such shoddy work.... Also, I fear that RTA is secretly trying to drive down interest in the Waterfront Line in an attempt to eliminate it... I note on their website RTA touting to Browns fans riding the Red, Blue and Green lines into Tower City for the "short walk" to the stadium... Hmmm, this was our walk when I was a kid... It seemed long then, but people did it. I know in the 1980s RTA started running a bus shuttle between TC the stadium. Just the way this whole thing has been handled as well as the 2-year disappearance in service raises my suspicions... Don't be surprised if RTA suddenly cries poor ... and is unable to fund the WFL bridge rebuild.

As was noted on another board, there are a lot of Joe Calabrese holdovers in the India Birdsong admin, which is uncomfortable. Calabrese was terrible for transit in Cleveland.

[WRnative]

Respected Cleveland.com architecture critic Steven Litt is not impressed by the initial designs for the Sherwin Williams Public Square campus headquarters, especially for the project's skyscraper.

<<But the latest designs, which the company unveiled late last month, and which give the first clear idea of what the company intends to build, will likely earn a middle position on the skyline in terms of its design and its capacity to stoke affection and civic pride.

Whether that’s a high middle position or a somewhat lower one remains to be seen. It depends on how architects from the New Haven-based firm of Pickard Chilton and the Cleveland firm of Vocon resolve key issues raised by their emerging early-stage “schematic” plans.

Those issues include whether the glass facades of the tower look rippled or puffy — in other words, cheap — if they’re poorly designed and detailed.

Also of concern is whether the building can lift spirits and communicate Sherwin-Williams’ presence and identity effectively through landscaping, streetscapes, lighting, and use of color, during the day and at night....>>

He also notes the low level of LEED sustainability rating.

<<As for sustainability, Sherwin-Williams is aiming for a “certified” ranking under the LEED rating system, the lowest of four levels codified by the U.S. Green Building Council. That’s not an especially stirring statement in the middle of a global climate crisis.

On this and other aspects of its design, Sherwin-Williams needs to do better. Right now, there’s not much passion in the project. It could use some.>>

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/...ommentary.html

Hopefully, the new tower won't detract from the Public Square skyline, given its glass facade compared to the stone facades of the other three giants on Public Square. That difference seems jarring to me, and not just insubstantial as Litt characterizes it.

<<At this point, for example, it’s clear that the Sherwin-Williams headquarters won’t surpass the Terminal Tower or Key Tower.

Those two buildings exemplify some of the best aspects of the American skyscraper tradition, with their richly textured stonework and distinctive spires, shapes, and styles — neoclassical for the Terminal Tower and subtly Art Deco for the Key Tower. They also embody the lofty ambitions of their developers — the Van Sweringen brothers in the case of the Terminal Tower, and Dick Jacobs in the case of the Key Tower.>>

Thankfully, the new Sherwin Williams tower won't be planted directly on Public Square, somewhat minimizing the difference in facades. Also, it doesn't appear that the new building will be a Justice Center-like eyesore on the Cleveland skyline.

[TheProf]

It makes sense the Sherwin-Williams tower will be set back off of Public Square. It will give the Square more "air" plus it will maintain the prominence and the presence of the handsome 55 Building -- formerly the Illuminating Co. building, now being converted into apts. ... I just wish the SHW 'pavilion' was taller than 2 stories and a bit more impressive... But clearly the positives of this gigantic project waaaay outweigh any negatives some of us may see. And I kinda like the sleek-looking tower. It will definitely be a get for our downtown skyline.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by statebw

Will the infrastructure bill help these issues..?

Given RTA's history and current status? No. When it comes to extending or even just fixing/maintaining rail transit, there have been other pro-transit/infrastructure federal initiatives in the past; though this is one of the biggest. When other cities are lining up and grabbing these funds, Cleveland is either: a) has it's head so far up its arse with poor budgeting/priorities, it cannot come up with a plan to even apply or, b) the anti-rail types are fighting RTA (which includes RTA's own former GM Calabrese), no application ever comes forth out of Cleveland.

... a perpetual sad state of affairs. Cleveland is lucky that long-gone predecessors built our rail network. But I often wonder if the subsequent clowns running things (including other public officials), have the ability to even keep it. X your fingers.

[Cleverfield]

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2...glenville.html

This is an important project, but with East Cleveland right next door I wonder how long the businesses and residents here will put up with the crime and vandalism that’s bound to happen there. I don’t mean to be a naysayer, but something must be done about the Wild West town of East Cleveland before the neighborhoods around it can stabilize. I think the only solution is for Cleveland to annex East Cleveland.

[WRnative]

An eminent domain action may be necessary, but one last property is needed to begin construction of the Irishtown Bend park that likely will enhance greatly Ohio City.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ra...?ocid=msedgntp

The legendary Steven Litt views the park as a "potentially spectacular" addition to the Flats.

<<The latest renderings show how the park would blend commanding views of the river with access to regional trails and landscapes that evoke Cleveland’s Native American heritage, its Canal era, the rise of industry in the 20th century, and the shift toward rebuilding the city as a more equitable place where industry, nature and diverse neighborhoods can thrive....

Planners have been studying the potential for parks, trails, and an archaeological site on the oxbow-shaped river bend since the early 1990s. They have seen it as a way to rediscover a forgotten piece of geography where 19th-century Irish immigrants established a gritty, walk-to-work settlement amid factories, rail lines, and shipping.>>

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/...o-reality.html

Part of the project will involve completing the Cleveland Foundation Centennial Lake Link Trail. When completed, the Trail will connect Wendy Park on Lake Erie to the 101-mile Towpath Trail. Ironically, the Wendy Park Bridge was completed before this Irishtown Bend missing link.

https://www.clevelandmetroparks.com/...k-bridge-and-w

<<In addition to the “missing link” portion of the trail, the latest designs show the [Irishtown Bend] park would include a 2-acre event lawn, a sledding hill, a playground with rocky areas for scrambling, a wetland “healing” garden, an archaeology site, and a “maritime theater’' — a natural outdoor amphitheater oriented toward river traffic. Trails would zigzag down the slope, connecting Ohio City to the river’s edge.>>

After reading the above articles and how the Georges are apparently holding up the project by refusing to sell a key property and thereby potentially jeopardizing federal financing, I think I'm going to boycott Bobby George's restaurants until the project is underway in a timely manner. See post 31 here:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/clev...-2021-a-4.html

[216facts]

^^ Nice post. I'll have no problem boycotting Town Hall.

It is nice to see the connections being made on the near West side/OC area. There still remains a fairly big missing link between Steel Yard Commons and the Towpath trail at Harvard.

I have walked the trail from the old Sokoloski's to Steel Yard and it is very well done, the connections North towards Irishtown Bend are very scenic also, including the Redline Greenway that shoots off towards W 25 and beyond. Some really great hiking / biking / rollerblading options.

For the Irishtown Bend site, it would be great if the unsightly CMHA towers could be brought down, increasing the park area and/or gardening area. Those towers look like total warts from downtown.

[ohioaninsc]

Will the new mayor try and stop the city from working w/ the Guardians to renovate Progressive Field? That would be a big problem if he does so.

[MPK21]

[quote=TheProf;61910522]Given RTA's history and current status? No. When it comes to extending or even just fixing/maintaining rail transit, there have been other pro-transit/infrastructure federal initiatives in the past; though this is one of the biggest. When other cities are lining up and grabbing these funds, Cleveland is either: a) has it's head so far up its arse with poor budgeting/priorities, it cannot come up with a plan to even apply or, b) the anti-rail types are fighting RTA (which includes RTA's own former GM Calabrese), no application ever comes forth out of Cleveland.

... a perpetual sad state of affairs. Cleveland is lucky that long-gone predecessors built our rail network. But I often wonder if the subsequent clowns running things (including other public officials), have the ability to even keep it. X your fingers.[/QUOTE

Where is India Birdsong on any of this?