Cleveland Development Discussions (Euclid, McDonald: recycle, settlement, cases)

[dr_j_planning]

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/202...advocates.html

[TechieTechie]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

Burke is really important for the big Downtown corporations so I doubt you'll ever see anything done w/ it.
A new Browns stadium south of Progressive Field would be awesome...free up that whole part of the lakefront and get the malls extended over the RR tracks and freeway.

I SO disagree with this. The airport benefits a small number of big corporations, while there are empty runways and terminal at Hopkins. I know the FAA would have to approve (or the Daley ghost would need to appear) but man, that's whole lotta space that be put to much better use.

Boston focused on the cleaning up the Harbor and developing a pedestrian friendly waterfront 40 years ago, and it has completely transformed the city and the abutting suburbs (East Boston in particular). CLE has a MASSIVE opportunity, particularly with the Browns musing about relocating, to transform the city. They can do this by sensitively developing the waterfront with a mix of parks, retail and residential. Yes, some pedestrian bridges over the highway would need built, but again, it can be done. Boston has a series of them linking the 2 most expensive sections of Downtown to the Charles River and the Esplanade (park). And they are in use 24/7/365.

Think I'm nuts? Go back and read up on Boston in the 1960s-1980s...and now. It can be done, it just needs visionary leadership, an unshakeable plan and some seed $$. Developers will do the rest. And trust me, downtown businesses will eventually get on board when they see their recruiting pool increase due to the influx of professionals who flock to metro Cleveland for a vibrant downtown.


My 5 cents

[dr_j_planning]

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/...ot-houses.html

[TechieTechie]

Originally Posted by dr_j_planning

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/...ot-houses.html

This is interesting. I'm torn between:

1. Allowing neighbors to have a say in design would actually kill the developer's ability to build (because the process is SO drawn out by neighbors not wanting ANY development or want the porches blue, not white)

2. Allowing neighbors to have a say in design would actually ensure developed properties aren't butt ugly

Though, I wonder, if the code wasn't more specific on what's allowed/not allowed (and things like setbacks are enforced) that a neighborhood design review wouldn't be necessary.

Wonder what other cities are doing this well...Allowing enough development (thru clear and not overly burdensome code) to help drive residents to neighborhoods while keeping the housing stock reasonably attractive. Also wonder why the city's not taking up the AIA's offer to help redefine the codes....that seems like a win win.

[216facts]

Originally Posted by TechieTechie

I SO disagree with this. The airport benefits a small number of big corporations, while there are empty runways and terminal at Hopkins. I know the FAA would have to approve (or the Daley ghost would need to appear) but man, that's whole lotta space that be put to much better use.

Boston focused on the cleaning up the Harbor and developing a pedestrian friendly waterfront 40 years ago, and it has completely transformed the city and the abutting suburbs (East Boston in particular). CLE has a MASSIVE opportunity, particularly with the Browns musing about relocating, to transform the city. They can do this by sensitively developing the waterfront with a mix of parks, retail and residential. Yes, some pedestrian bridges over the highway would need built, but again, it can be done. Boston has a series of them linking the 2 most expensive sections of Downtown to the Charles River and the Esplanade (park). And they are in use 24/7/365.

Think I'm nuts? Go back and read up on Boston in the 1960s-1980s...and now. It can be done, it just needs visionary leadership, an unshakeable plan and some seed $$. Developers will do the rest. And trust me, downtown businesses will eventually get on board when they see their recruiting pool increase due to the influx of professionals who flock to metro Cleveland for a vibrant downtown.


My 5 cents

Agree. Been thinking and advocating this for many years. I think the best way to get this done is to make a compromise between business interests and the Metroparks. Build upon the synergy the metroparks has with the city in developing the lakefront and set the vision for a unified lakefront park from Edgewater to the d i k e 14 nature preserve. Some portion of Burke would have to be given up for business development (no air traffic.) Airport advocates would have to be pushed into upgrading Hopkins and the county airports. To me and many others - its a no-brainer, but unfortunately the airport has some strong business interests that command the ears of city hall.

My vision would be to move I-90 south just a bit and really open up some lakefront space. (People shun such huge extravagant expenses, yet we are making a 12-lane bridge over the valley and building out I-271 like we're LA.) There's only one thing that ODOT can do well, and that's pour concrete.

[TechieTechie]

Originally Posted by 216facts

My vision would be to move I-90 south just a bit and really open up some lakefront space. (People shun such huge extravagant expenses, yet we are making a 12-lane bridge over the valley and building out I-271 like we're LA.) There's only one thing that ODOT can do well, and that's pour concrete.

Oh, I agree. But after the disaster of the Big Dig, particularly in a less wealthy (and R) state like OH, it ain't gonna happen. Now, the removal of Boston's Central Artery really helped drive development back to downtown, but there are no studies that show the ROI. Plus, it took more than 30 years from inception to completion.

But it needs VISION. Boston's Tom Menino may have been a streetlights and garage pickup mayor (his nickname was Mumbles), but he oversaw the largest development period of the city, save maybe the early 1900s and the the city's founding.

I don't get it...it seems like Cleveland government has very few visionaries. Why is that? Or am I being overly harsh?

[bjimmy24]

I do not believe the Big Dig is actually such an unquestionable success, certainly you will find many locals that disagree. Probably one of the most corrupt projects in American history. Lots of that in Mass, actually. Still paying for it, 10s of billions of dollars, and will be for decades to come.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I do not believe the Big Dig is actually such an unquestionable success, certainly you will find many locals that disagree. Probably one of the most corrupt projects in American history. Lots of that in Mass, actually. Still paying for it, 10s of billions of dollars, and will be for decades to come.

From what I've read, the Big Dig also wasn't well built. Boston didn't have a Robert Moses running things. Although Moses favored highways, my memory is that his projects were built well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig

[TechieTechie]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I do not believe the Big Dig is actually such an unquestionable success, certainly you will find many locals that disagree. Probably one of the most corrupt projects in American history. Lots of that in Mass, actually. Still paying for it, 10s of billions of dollars, and will be for decades to come.

Oh, I agree, it's not an unquestionable success. Did it spur development? Yes. Was it a worthwhile investment....eh, not so sure. Was the build shoddy in places? Absolutelfreakinlutely. Did MA overpay? Absolutely. Which is why potential major thoroughfare relocation projects are going to be tainted for decades to come....that was my point.


It's too bad the BRA doesn't have a long term survey in place to study the developmental impacts of removing the Central Artery. Oh, well.

[1watertiger]

https://www.bizjournals.com/clevelan...?ana=cleveland