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I'm not hepped up this Waterfront Line extension which the UO poster is really pushing, and even discussing the possibility of abandonment is very counterproductive. The main focus of the Neotrans guy is downgrade the Red Line from heavy to light rail so it can run on streets to support his loop idea. But he hasn't mentioned whether there will be any traffic light preemption -- something that has never been done in Cleveland, not in Shaker Heights (where LRT trains cross many streets) or the much-touted Health Line, where a good portion of the ride is sitting at Red Lights, even in the much de-populated Midtown area. With no traffic light preemption, Waterront Line loop trains would be a slow as buses; and much slower than cars.
Also, NeoTrans assumes the Waterfront Line is an unredeemable failure, but does mention that Flats East Bank Phase 3 project is about to greatly expand housing (up to 2,000 apt units, perhaps). How would the Loop help as Flats East Bank is already situated adjacent to the existing Rapid station of the same name?
I wish our great planners would focus how to correct the service blunders of RTA in running the WFL rather than declaring it a failure, contemplating abandonment and asserting, the only way to "save" the WFL is by converting the Red Line to trolleys and building this Loop. Keep in mind, thanks to the woeful leadership (who was no friend of rail transit; even NeoTrans admits this), RTA has yet to run WFL trains beyond 7p or with a frequency other than every 30 minutes since the new, expanded (and very popular) Flats East Bank development was finished -- albeit, in its current iteration -- and with the new 3-level restaurants along the Boardwalk set to open this summer.
If the Waterfront Line is a failure, both RTA and the City of Cleveland have set it up to be so.
What Cleveland really needs to do is straight up ban awful massive parking lots, drive thrus and gas stations at major intersections. It's hard to take a place seriously when these are your major intersections (you do not see this in thriving cities):
I agree in principle, but it would take a good 10-20 years to start seeing any meaningful impact from that. It's a good idea, but a slow one.
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Slavic Village is rough, but at least I can see a future here
My take on SV is that the housing stock is the biggest obstacle. It's both run down and architecturally uninteresting. A neighborhood can usually overcome one of those things, but overcoming both is difficult. The business districts do give the neighborhood a spark of hope though.
In the long run, I'm bullish on Buckeye. The business district is pretty long and fairly in-tact, and the proximity to Shaker Square is an asset that already exists. I think the housing stock is better too, but that's subjective. A lot of the homes are doubles -- but is that a weakness or a strength?
The two elephants in the room are schools and housing prices throughout the metro. These rough east side neighborhoods are a tough sell when there's still loads of sub $100k neighborhoods all over the place.
My take on SV is that the housing stock is the biggest obstacle. It's both run down and architecturally uninteresting. A neighborhood can usually overcome one of those things, but overcoming both is difficult. The business districts do give the neighborhood a spark of hope though.
I'm not so much concerned with whether the housing is architecturally interesting so much as whether it is sound. While we certainly have our residential architectural moments in such areas as Shaker Square, University Circle, Edgewater and Ohio City/Detroit-Shoreway, to name a few, Cleveland's mainly wood-frame housing, dominated often by Cleveland Doubles, is a bit on the bland side (I do love old those brick apt walk-ups -- often quads or 6-unit buildings mainly built btw the 2 World Wars -- that pop up in most older neighborhoods). Slavic Village has a lot of dilapidated houses... And even with the heavily blighted SV residential side streets areas, Cleveland has the developers (ie Bo Knez) and others who can construct large tracts of attractive infill housing to turn a neighborhood around almost instantly... If you don't believe it, check out the SE fringes of Glenville (sandwiched in between U. Circle and East Cleveland), and the plans developing for Fairfax, in/around Cleveland Clinic.
But even aside from the neighborhood blight, SV also has it's moments of solid stock as well and some actually really attractive streets -- primarily main arteries -- As I noted above, the 3200 block of E. 55 (from just south of the RR overpass) south to Broadway, is a very attractive neighborhood of some substantial old homes, a few quad apt buildings, churches and the large new-ish senior's residential building @ Lufkin & 55th. Similarly, E. 65th in the 3600 block south to Fleet Ave and beyond is perhaps the strongest stretch, economically, in all of SV -- a narrow, tight/dense street of old well kept apts, churches tons of infill townhomes and even a mini-mansion. Even within some of the hard-blight areas there is hope... While driving the area last summer, I was stunned at the few blocks E. 63rd north of the wonderful Hyacinth factory loft-apt retrofit up to Francis Ave-- while it is mainly populated with typical woodframe housing, including Cleveland doubles, this stretch is very stable and, dare I say, attractive -- the housing, well-kept yards and gardens and even a large playground -- also well kept.
So when you put these stong pockets together with very attractive in-tact commercial districts, mainly at E. 55 & Broadway, but still on (somewhat fading) Fleet Ave, SV has a lot of potential.
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Originally Posted by ferraris
In the long run, I'm bullish on Buckeye. The business district is pretty long and fairly in-tact, and the proximity to Shaker Square is an asset that already exists. I think the housing stock is better too, but that's subjective. A lot of the homes are doubles -- but is that a weakness or a strength?
You didn't mention the proximity to the Rapid, which greatly enhances Buckeye's walkability potential. Starting with the E. 116th corner -- probably the strongest commercial portion of the street -- along with the Edwins corner at the opposite end (E.130 - South Moreland), Buckeye actually has more in-tact, mixed-use apts-over-retail commercial buildings than its much more successful country cousin to the north: Larchmere. (not to mention the fact that Buckeye is narrower and denser than Larchmere -- the latter having more set-back buildings; many with lawns.
Buckeye has a lot of hidden architectural gems; many of the mixed-use variety. The amazing 1920s-built, 3-story bluestone Weizer office building at E. 118th is THE architectural highlight of the entire street imho. But obviously, blight and abandonment is very high along Buckeye and the ongoing race against the wrecking ball (creating those damnable urban open lots) is maddening. The most notably high-profile fight is the large, empty mixed-use building at E. 130th adjacent to the recently revived Edwins (Brandon Chrostowski) bakery/butcher shop buildings that have pumped needed new life into the block... The recent announcement of Buckeye intervention by successful inner-city RE developers Burten, Bell & Carr, Inc., offers further hope to this very vital Cleveland strip.
Will "whiskey bonds" help launch the Flats South developmnet project?
<<Nearly eight years later, Lix has his sites set on a new milestone—a new 25,000-square-foot facility in the historic 1911 Consolidated Fruit Auction Company building, 601 Stones Levee Road in the Flats South on the bank of the Cuyahoga River.
If the bridge/ramp discussed here is repaired, this location would be a quarter mile walk to Progressive Field. One thought, freighters/boats likely must slow at this location on the Cuyahoga River in order to navigate Calamity Curve. If so, this may be a premier site to watch ore boats and other bulk freighters on the Cuyahoga.
Lix says the entire project will cost about $20 million, including new equipment, renovations, and alterations to the 110-year-old building.
So, on Dec. 8 Lix launched a unique crowdfunding campaign to raise the first million. Investors must contribute at least $1,000, which is paid back after six years—either at 5% interest repaid on the investment, or investors can recoup their investments in barrels of Cleveland Whiskey, Lix says.>>
If the Stones Levee Road bridge/ramp discussed shown in the following article is repaired, this location would be a quarter mile walk to Progressive Field. Flats South apparently will be in close proximity to downtown, the Flats East, Tremont and Ohio City.
One thought, freighters/boats likely must slow at this location on the Cuyahoga River in order to navigate Calamity Curve. If so, this may be a premier site to watch ore boats and other bulk freighters on the Cuyahoga.
Personally, I have no memory of ever being on the "south" bank of the Flats. In the spring, it may merit an exploration.
It would seem that the Sherwin Williams design concept is settled -- no sky scraping, which was an initial disappointment to read, but a very useful campus design that has the intention of attracting talent to work and possibly live downtown. https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/...n-concept.html
Perhaps, also, the smaller height will allow greater focus on architectural detail. Most importantly, Sherwin Williams is here to stay. Good for its employees, good for Cleveland, good for Ohio.
It would seem that the Sherwin Williams design concept is settled -- no sky scraping, which was an initial disappointment to read, but a very useful campus design that has the intention of attracting talent to work and possibly live downtown. https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/...n-concept.html
Perhaps, also, the smaller height will allow greater focus on architectural detail. Most importantly, Sherwin Williams is here to stay. Good for its employees, good for Cleveland, good for Ohio.
I've seen people disappointed about the no skyscraper thing, but I kinda think that is a shallow objection. I've always preferred more human scaled development. Besides, the most important point is that the massive scar of parking lots in the center of the city is being addressed. It was embarrassing, now much less so.
It would seem that the Sherwin Williams design concept is settled -- no sky scraping, which was an initial disappointment to read, but a very useful campus design that has the intention of attracting talent to work and possibly live downtown. https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/...n-concept.html
Perhaps, also, the smaller height will allow greater focus on architectural detail. Most importantly, Sherwin Williams is here to stay. Good for its employees, good for Cleveland, good for Ohio.
I'll admit, I was hoping for a skyscraper. The Terminal Tower, and more recently 200 Public Square (the old Sohio building) and Key, set the tone for the Square to be surrounded by monumental towers. It is a unique grouping exclusive to Cleveland. I often think how tragic it was that the Ameritrust Tower was not built in 1990 when planned-- I thought it was ultra-mod (some may have felt uncomfortable with it) that would have been a Cleveland signature building. I was hoping Sherwin-Williams would have resurrected that mindset even if not Ameritrust's tower, itself.
That said, this disappointment is largely offset by the fact that we are finally putting useful (hopefully) quality buildings on those hideous surface parking lots at the center of town. That's perhaps the biggest win in addition to keeping our international signature legacy corporation home at its birthplace. But there's still work to do. Civic leaders and planners must demand that SHW's complex interacts with its environment and is people/pedestrian friendly... ie: ground floor retail & restaurants, the latter with big windows and lots of outdoor seating. As welcome as such a huge employee (and hopefully hotel guest) generating complex at the center of town will be, the last thing we need is another lifeless office building faced with small windows, employee-security entrances and parking ramp driveways featuring that hideous, loud beeping/warning when a car is heading up/down to street level.
SIDE NOTE -- ultra radical: If I were King of Downtown, I would use the SHW HQ 'campus' as an opportunity to finally narrow river-wide Superior Ave. from Public Square to Vet Memorial Bridge. Downtown does not need a frigging 6-lane street cutting through downtown... Such a wide street is especially not needed since Public Square was (finally) restructured as a public park so that now motor vehicle traffic -- at least that of the non-RTA variety (unfortunately), can no longer pass through Public Square's center. This great move has acted to divert East Side bound auto traffic away from West Superior either north to St. Clair or south to Huron, sometimes Prospect/W. 6th.
On a personal level, I know that, walking to-from the Warehouse District and Lower Euclid or Tower City, simply crossing this ultra-wide street is a psychological barrier; so much so, I often alter plans walking that area. No need to move buildings, just develop lawns to encroach upon 2 Superior Lanes; 1 on each side.
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Will "whiskey bonds" help launch the Flats South developmnet project?
