Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Cleveland.com has exclusively reported that EDWIN's will take over the Shaker Square lease for the space once occupied by Fire, which closed this summer. EDWIN's will have a six-month lease with a 5-year option to determine if Shaker Square, especially during the epidemic can support a second EDWIN's restaurant operation.
Cleveland.com has exclusively reported that EDWIN's will take over the Shaker Square lease for the space once occupied by Fire, which closed this summer. EDWIN's will have a six-month lease with a 5-year option to determine if Shaker Square, especially during the epidemic can support a second EDWIN's restaurant operation.
I'm sorry Banter is leaving Detroit-Shoreway; that urban neighborhood is hip and really picking up steam. Given the energy there, I'm sure it'll be replaced. I really hate seeing the 100th Bomb Group closing; that was a unique venue for a restaurant and a family favorite (which the PD incorrectly cites as opening in 2004; our Dad took us there, esp for Sunday dinners, for decades, and he died in 2001 -- par for the course with the PD's oft shoddy homework/research/reporting.
I'm really pulling for EDWIN's Too -- I really hate that Fire closed; it was the only real upscale restaurant in the Square -- EDWINS is quality, but not at Fire's level. Shaker Square is at a crossroads. Within the last year or so they've lost 3 popular staple restaurants: Dewey's Coffee/Popcorn, Yours Truly and now Fire... These loses weren't just due to COVID -- Yours Truly cut back hours to a 3p closing, allegedly due to crime incidents (although YT's company line is that the space was not adaptable to their re-envisioned 'bar-pub/restaurant' set-up... I'm not buying it.... In addition to other problems, Coral is a terrible owner/manager of the Square. Upkeep is terrible -- I recently saw weeds growing through sidewalk cracks, and the bricked pavement needs to be torn-up and reset. Door jams and window sashes have lots of chipped paint. Security is nowadays is invisible. I wish Coral would sell.
I'm really pulling for EDWIN's Too -- I really hate that Fire closed; it was the only real upscale restaurant in the Square -- EDWINS is quality, but not at Fire's level. Shaker Square is at a crossroads. Within the last year or so they've lost 3 popular staple restaurants: Dewey's Coffee/Popcorn, Yours Truly and now Fire... These loses weren't just due to COVID -- Yours Truly cut back hours to a 3p closing, allegedly due to crime incidents (although YT's company line is that the space was not adaptable to their re-envisioned 'bar-pub/restaurant' set-up... I'm not buying it.... In addition to other problems, Coral is a terrible owner/manager of the Square. Upkeep is terrible -- I recently saw weeds growing through sidewalk cracks, and the bricked pavement needs to be torn-up and reset. Door jams and window sashes have lots of chipped paint. Security is nowadays is invisible. I wish Coral would sell.
I most enjoy the Balaton in Shaker Square. I've met the young daughter of the owners and her fiance. My hunch is that the Balaton has significant staying power, IF Shaker Square doesn't collapse into irrelevance.
Many months ago, if not a year ago, we had a discussion about the impact of Van Aken on Shaker Square. As much as I'm not impressed by the Van Aken common dining area, as it is disgustingly too noisy, many of the restaurants there, including Banter, largely are takeout businesses.
When we had the discussion about Shaker Square vs. Van Aken, we never imagined the epidemic. But the combination of a shift towards takeout and the relatively poor parking experience at Shaker Square, shifted the odds even more against Shaker Square restaurants. All of the closures likely helped the survivors, but there is still likely nine months more to go before we begin a sustained recovery. With cooler weather arriving, and anticipated mushrooming of infections as activities move indoors, we may face a very rough six months ahead, especially for sit-down restaurants.
Personally, I haven't dined in a sit-down restaurant since before March. For years, I've gone to the Balaton several times a year. At next opportunity, I do intend to order takeout from there in order to promote their survivability.
Downtown faces even worse times ahead. I don't anticipate a full reopening of downtown until the second half of 2021. Playhouse Square tells me that they've sold 38,000 season tickets, down from 48,000 in 2020, but still much higher than I imagined. Many were sold before the impact of the epidemic hit full force; 2021-2022 season ticket renewals may be much weaker. I didn't renew my tickets after several decades because none of my friends or family wanted to go to the theater for the foreseeable future. I still have a couple of rescheduled plays for next summer, including "My Fair Lady," but I don't foresee even considering repurchasing season tickets until 2022 at the earliest.
It will be a long winter in downtown Cleveland. I doubt if Quicken Loans Arena will fully reopen until late in the NBA and AHL seasons, if then.
When will the Greater Cleveland convention business restart, let alone reach previous levels of viability, especially if the IX Center is permanently converted to other uses.
Given the unknowns, I expect the evisceration of the payroll and roster of the Cleveland Indians over the winter.
Recovery may be swift after 2021, except that habits have changed. Long-established businesses are gone. And many Americans will be relatively impoverished compared to pre-COVID. With the Federal Reserve already monetizing federal debt, the U.S. economic outlook is a potential minefield.
Nouriel Roubini's outlook weighs gloomily on my outlook.
<<Nouriel Roubini: 'My prediction for a Great Depression is not about 2020, but the decade of the 2020s'>>
Many investment experts and analysts are anticipating a U.S. stagflation, maybe one worse than the 1970s. The argument is that inflation will force tightening on the Fed, creating a vicious cycle in the financial markets and the general economy.
Thinking about it, certain SH and CH restaurants, including those in Van Aken District, may benefit from the trend towards remote working. I've yet to visit, but restaurants such as City Barbeque on Chagrin Blvd. should be prospering, especially relatively to other restaurants as it is geared towards take-out orders.
Many months ago, if not a year ago, we had a discussion about the impact of Van Aken on Shaker Square. As much as I'm not impressed by the Van Aken common dining area, as it is disgustingly too noisy, many of the restaurants there, including Banter, largely are takeout businesses.
Have you been to VAD since the the block of Tuttle was closed down and turned into outdoor picnic table space? It has made a big difference because you can eat outside and dining inside is quieter because others are eating outside.
Granted that's not a year round solution, but with patio heaters it should be feasible for a large chunk of the year.
Quote:
When we had the discussion about Shaker Square vs. Van Aken, we never imagined the epidemic. But the combination of a shift towards takeout and the relatively poor parking experience at Shaker Square, shifted the odds even more against Shaker Square restaurants. All of the closures likely helped the survivors, but there is still likely nine months more to go before we begin a sustained recovery. With cooler weather arriving, and anticipated mushrooming of infections as activities move indoors, we may face a very rough six months ahead, especially for sit-down restaurants.
Personally, I haven't dined in a sit-down restaurant since before March.
Shaker Square is very heavy on sit-down restaurants. It could really use a dedicated bar, a take out place besides Subway or Captain Tony's, and retail besides CVS and a cell phone store.
I think the prominent new Rape Crisis Center doesn't help the other businesses. Shaker Square already had problems with perceptions of crime and panhandling. It's actually a pretty good location, being so well served by transit, but it's also the sort of thing that will make some people uncomfortable enough to choose other destinations. Restaurants already operate on slim margins, so even a small drop in patronage can be a huge difference. It's an important service, but I definitely wonder about its impact on the Square overall.
In addition, the crisis center takes up the space that used to serve as the indoor farmers market and housed the occasional event. Eliminating some of my main reason's go to to Shaker Square during the colder months.
I've only gone to the new Biggby once. It's very different from the cozy feeling of Dewey's, but that is partially due to the pandemic. Between 3-19, Phoenix, UnBar, and Rising Star it has some stiff competition nearby.
Do people really do take out that much? I personally don't think I've gotten any takeout for years. Restaurants are about the experience to me. I can't justify spending too much money on takeout and then just eating at home. I'd rather make my own food for 1/3 the cost. But I can't duplicate the atmosphere and social aspect at home, nor the feeling of being out and about, i.e. "doing something." I am a person that very much enjoys being out in the city. Takeout doesn't do it for me.
I will say, I vastly prefer the Yours Truly Playhouse Square location to the Shaker Square one. I believe YT when they say that space didn't suit their needs. I totally understand what they mean. YT Shaker Squared felt more like an Applebee's than a place to be.
Also, a friend of mine from NYC just moved out of our building downtown and I helped him move to a new place at Shaker Square (E 130). I think we natives might be harder on it than others. My friend thought it had everything he needed/wanted in an area (grocery, rapid, restaurants, cafe, bars, pharmacy, access to Shaker Lakes) and saves him about $250 per month vs downtown and ability to buy a car (our parking downtown is $150/month, I believe he said at Shaker Square it's $40).
Do people really do take out that much? I personally don't think I've gotten any takeout for years. Restaurants are about the experience to me. I can't justify spending too much money on takeout and then just eating at home. I'd rather make my own food for 1/3 the cost.
"Work lunch" is a big driver of take out, which may partially explain why Shaker Square is light on takeout options.
My personal consumption of take out food went up dramatically once my son was born. Dining out with a baby or toddler is a whole production, and being able to skip cooking a meal at home is a nice, inexpensive luxury.
Quote:
But I can't duplicate the atmosphere and social aspect at home, nor the feeling of being out and about, i.e. "doing something." I am a person that very much enjoys being out in the city. Takeout doesn't do it for me.
I know exactly what you mean. I've managed to replicate the "doing something" aspect a little bit by walking to the restaurant and ordering in person instead of through an app. Usually it's just coffee or a smoothie.
Also, a friend of mine from NYC just moved out of our building downtown and I helped him move to a new place at Shaker Square (E 130). I think we natives might be harder on it than others. My friend thought it had everything he needed/wanted in an area (grocery, rapid, restaurants, cafe, bars, pharmacy, access to Shaker Lakes) and saves him about $250 per month vs downtown and ability to buy a car (our parking downtown is $150/month, I believe he said at Shaker Square it's $40).
It does serve pretty well as neighborhood business district if you live there. It's just lacking a bit in the "wander around and discover things" factor that most destination business districts have. Once you eat, the only other thing to do is see a movie. Compare that to other places around Cleveland where you can go to a brewery or bar, shop at interesting retail, play arcade games or pinball, get ice cream or donuts, etc.
I think you're right that locals are tougher on it than it deserves perhaps. It's definitely impressed out-of-town visitors I've brought there, including myself when I was first considering moving here.
Have you been to VAD since the the block of Tuttle was closed down and turned into outdoor picnic table space? It has made a big difference because you can eat outside and dining inside is quieter because others are eating outside.
Granted that's not a year round solution, but with patio heaters it should be feasible for a large chunk of the year.
No, I wasn't aware of the outdoor dining area. Good idea, but I doubt that patio heaters can compensate much past October. I've dined under infrared heaters in CA and on Flagstaff Mountain in Boulder, CO. My perception is that below 55 degrees, especially with any wind and NO sun (at night), it becomes very chilly. Does VAD already have infrared heaters set up? Sunny weather makes a big, big difference.
Do people really do take out that much? I personally don't think I've gotten any takeout for years. Restaurants are about the experience to me. I can't justify spending too much money on takeout and then just eating at home. I'd rather make my own food for 1/3 the cost. But I can't duplicate the atmosphere and social aspect at home, nor the feeling of being out and about, i.e. "doing something." I am a person that very much enjoys being out in the city. Takeout doesn't do it for me.
I can't easily make many of the meals that I enjoy at my favorite restaurants, such as pho and a banh mi at Superior Pho or veal Wiener Schnitzel, spaetzle, and beet salad at Balaton. Perhaps if I made it a point to learn to prepare such foods, but my time is worth enough to justify supporting my favorite restaurants, and to help them survive the epidemic. I can't think of anything that I would want to order take-out from Yours Truly.
I get bored with my limited repertoire of culinary preparations, and it's time consuming to perfect new dishes let alone prepare them. I spend almost an hour preparing four servings of my homespun, relatively healthy crustless quiche, and I've been making these for over a year. The ingredients (for all four servings) include farro, quinoa, three large eggs, broccoli, spinach, three eggs, some meat (often ground turkey or chopped cottage ham), sweet peppers, onion, pizza cheese, Parmesan cheese, olives, garlic, cinnamon, pepper (no salt), almond and soy milk, and topped by slices of gouda cheese. The ingredients cost around $6 for the four servings. I doubt it would be a big seller in a restaurant, given its novelty, and the fact that you can't taste or even recognize the individual ingredients, apart from the cheese, sweet peppers, olives, onion, and the meat, even though there is a lot of spinach and broccoli used.
I try to prepare low-carb meals, which limits the options as I use little pasta, limited potatoes, etc.
It does serve pretty well as neighborhood business district if you live there. It's just lacking a bit in the "wander around and discover things" factor that most destination business districts have. Once you eat, the only other thing to do is see a movie. Compare that to other places around Cleveland where you can go to a brewery or bar, shop at interesting retail, play arcade games or pinball, get ice cream or donuts, etc.
I think you're right that locals are tougher on it than it deserves perhaps. It's definitely impressed out-of-town visitors I've brought there, including myself when I was first considering moving here.
If I were going to make a date night out of Shaker Square area, I'd walk/bike there via the paths along Shaker Lakes/Doan Brook. Grab a coffee at UnBar (which is pretty cool to have in the area imo- a coffee shop/bar that serves non-alcoholic drinks) Then would visit Loganberry Books and browse for a while. Then go have dinner at either Balaton or Edwins. Then maybe have a drink or two at Academy Tavern and call it a night. I guess that is more of an endorsement of the north side of the square/off Larchmere, but it's all just one block away.
You could also go to Edwin's Bakery, skating at Cleveland Skating Club, and browse a few galleries.
So it's not quite the same as other areas, but I think that's fine for each area to be a little different. I already kinda feel like the near west side is just too homogenized and I don't really get anything out of 30 different breweries and artisanal donuts anymore.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
