Cleveland Development Discussions (Euclid, Green: discounts, where to, shore)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

?????

RTA lumps annual WFL ridership into the numbers for the Blue and Green lines, as the WFL is an extension of these lines. Clearly the Red Line is the anchor of the RTA rail system.

Red Line ridership is almost double that of the Blue and Green lines combined.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTA_Rapid_Transit

Those ridership figures are from 2006.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Obviously, the point was to connect Tower City with the East Flats, the north harbor attractions and the muny lot. The muny lot will become much more important if parking lots downtown eventually are developed.

Building a light rail line through downtown would have cost a relative fortune and wouldn't have enhanced development of the East Flats.

I actually agree that bus trolleys would have better and more economically fulfilled the transportation objectives of the WFL.

All that's needed is an enclosed loop; up E 9th Street, for example, so riders can use it to access the downtown area. The hotels along and close to E 9th Street, the stadiums, would provide lots of riders.

Cleveland is becoming popular with visitors and they will use the free trolleys (if they can figure out the routes) and not schlepp to the bowels of Tower City and pay up to $5.00 r/t to hit the Rock Hall. A light-rail loop could charge a $1.00 or so a ride if one enters the line in the downtown loop area.

I was impressed by the amount of people walking, and many cars, hitting the lakefront. The Long Live Rock sign at the Rock Hall is attracting lots of attention as well.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by C-rob2727

So how long? Just because you sat there for 15min on a random night and no one was using it doesn't mean the WFL is a failure.

Yeah, because I'm the only one dogging the WFL as a failure and it is otherwise a successful line. Please.

Then what is your definition of a success? Keep in mind the WFL service ends at 7pm.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

The WFL goes much closer to the Rock Hall than the trolleys, especially the C-line on weekends. The hill up from the Rock Hall is fairly steep and long, especially on a hot, humid day.

For those with a day pass, I would use the WFL every time. Remember that kids often ride free.

Why would say, a family of 4, driving into downtown CLE for an event or a visit, pay to park, pay over $20.00 to use the inconveniently located station in Tower City, and ride to the Flats or Rock Hall, when free trolleys are quickly transporting people throughout downtown?

The pedestrian bridge will solve the uphill highway walk from the lakefront. Pedestrians have other issues besides walking uphill on E 9th Street. For example, dodging cars exiting and entering the shoreway on the 5 intersections on this short walk.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Obviously, the point was to connect Tower City with the East Flats, the north harbor attractions and the muny lot. The muny lot will become much more important if parking lots downtown eventually are developed.

Building a light rail line through downtown would have cost a relative fortune and wouldn't have enhanced development of the East Flats.

I actually agree that bus trolleys would have better and more economically fulfilled the transportation objectives of the WFL.

"Enahanced the development of the East Flats?" The current version of the East Flats started before the WFL reinstated some regular service. The WLF is not enhancing or driving development. The WFL was a city sponsored Bicentennial gift to the city, hence its awful route.

[C-rob2727]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Yeah, because I'm the only one dogging the WFL as a failure and it is otherwise a successful line. Please.

Then what is your definition of a success? Keep in mind the WFL service ends at 7pm.

I like how you never answered the original question. That says more than you know...

[C-rob2727]

Originally Posted by Kamms

"Enahanced the development of the East Flats?" The current version of the East Flats started before the WFL reinstated some regular service. The WLF is not enhancing or driving development. The WFL was a city sponsored Bicentennial gift to the city, hence its awful route.

typical response from someone who doesn't know squat about transit or TOD.

[bjimmy24]

It's pretty hard to deny that the waterfront line certainly looks empty most of the time...

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by C-rob2727

typical response from someone who doesn't know squat about transit or TOD.

Well, having not owned a car since 2000, I have an idea about transit and it's not limited to using the WFL for the a flats festival.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Kamms

"Enahanced the development of the East Flats?" The current version of the East Flats started before the WFL reinstated some regular service. The WLF is not enhancing or driving development. The WFL was a city sponsored Bicentennial gift to the city, hence its awful route.

Developers only cared that the WFL was there, and likely understood that reactivated service would follow development.