Which Cleveland suburb for family and nature? (Shaker Heights, Solon: middle-class, fit in)

[Clevelander17]

The problem with trying to compare schools is that so much of what is perceived to be school quality is actually student quality. Even stats like AP Scholars, National Merit Semifinalists, and Ivy League caliber matriculation, all categories that make Shaker Heights look very good, are somewhat based on the fact that a lot of wealthy and involved families still use Shaker schools. That said, one thing that cannot be argued is the fact that SH offers about as wide a range of high quality programs (AP courses, IB program, music, gifted, foreign language, etc.) as any district in the area, and yes that's possible in part because of the high taxes that someone was complaining about earlier. If your child is bright and motivated, there are few public school options in the area that are better than Shaker Heights. If your child struggles in school and/or and has behavior problems, it probably doesn't matter where you send them unless you have a lot of money for a private school that can hold his/her hand all day.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

The problem with trying to compare schools is that so much of what is perceived to be school quality is actually student quality.

But don't you realize that student quality impacts school quality?

[Townes Van Zandt]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Part of the reason why people will ask about moving, is that City Data was first a "relocation forum".

Good point.

And while much of greater Cleveland is family oriented, there are a number of suburbs I would advise against for a number of reasons. It all depends upon what the OP is looking for.

[Townes Van Zandt]

I don't think commuting from the west side would be a good idea. Perhaps someone with more experience with that traffic could give you a better idea but I'd imagine that 90E is a cluster in the AM. I recommend keeping it simple and sticking to the east side(University Heights, Mayfield/Mayfield Heights, Beachwood, etc).

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

But don't you realize that student quality impacts school quality?

To some degree, sure. But it has limited affect on the quality of a school's staff and administration. That said, a lot of diverse districts (Shaker Heights is a great example) have put into place outstanding programs and courses for its high-achieving student base that are somewhat isolated from those hat either can't work at such a high level or refuse to work to their potential. The issues that some believe may exist at Shaker Heights High School are non-factors when you walk into an AP Calculus BC class or the Strings Orchestra class. For many students at SHHS, their entire course-load consists of these classes with other bright and hard-working peers and there is limited exposure to much else.

And, I know this will shock some people here, but a similar situation exists at Cleveland Heights High School, though obviously on a smaller scale. It's no coincidence that on a yearly basis numerous CHHS grads go on to Ivy+ colleges.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by CCGal

What is up with this Shaker Heights bug up some people's rears, I will never understand. It's pretty, and THAT IS ALL. If you like Shaker, it's an easy drive from a decent suburb. You can visit. The other option is to live in Shaker, and send your kids to private school- but I don't think it suits your request of a hiking-friendly area.

I like Shaker, but for me there's no way I would live there unless I had no school-age children, and I was wealthy enough to be able to afford living in one of those really grand mansions in the northern part of the suburb.

I have observed with interest that quite a number of people I've known who lived in Shaker bragged about how great the schools were, yet couldn't bring themselves to send their own children to them, opting for private schools instead. To me that is very telling.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by andrew61

I like Shaker, but for me there's no way I would live there unless I had no school-age children, and I was wealthy enough to be able to afford living in one of those really grand mansions in the northern part of the suburb.

I have observed with interest that quite a number of people I've known who lived in Shaker bragged about how great the schools were, yet couldn't bring themselves to send their own children to them, opting for private schools instead. To me that is very telling.

Well that's not a surprise; we know how much of a Chicago snob you are. Seriously, if parents want their kids to be exposed only to other rich white and asian kids (with a token black, and token poor kid thrown in), then by all means send them to private schools. But if parents want to teach their kids tolerance and empathy for all creeds, races, classes, send them to Shaker. I was amazed when I went to a prestigious college, where most of the kids graduated from expensive prep schools, at how intolerant a lot of the school population was. It became such that the white kids and the few black kids were almost totally cut off from one another. The school specialized in liberal arts, and the students studied subjects like East African History, and Anthropology, but they couldn't really bring themselves to interact with black kids from the inner city, and often said derogatory or insensitive things about them. Any Shaker graduate would know how to deal with different cultures and classes much better than kids who grow up in such a monochromatic environment.

[L2DB]

So the best and brightest are insulated from the less fortunate socio-economically (read: minorities), but this is good because they learn to interact with them?

[L2DB]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

But if parents want to teach their kids tolerance and empathy for all creeds, races, classes, send them to Shaker.

I think the idea that kids today need to be taught tolerance and empathy for everyone is outdated at best. Emphasizing the need to be sensitive to minorities just underscores that they are different, IMO.

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

I was amazed when I went to a prestigious college, where most of the kids graduated from expensive prep schools, at how intolerant a lot of the school population was.

Correlation, not causation. Maybe people that go to prestigious colleges are just prats.

[jmv]

I totally agree with the points Cleveland 17 and Cleverfield have made in this discussion. Clearly both of them are speaking from firsthand experience and their information about the Shaker schools is accurate. I can also speak from firsthand experience as a graduate of the Shaker schools who went on to an Ivy league university, and now as the parent of 3 Shaker students (2 at the high school). I am not sure upon what Andrew61 is basing his comments that not many Shaker grads send their kids to the public schools. That is just totally false. I couldn't even count the number of people I know who returned to Shaker just to send their kids to the Shaker schools. Many, many of my own high school classmates returned to do just that and are thrilled at the quality of the school, the breadth and depth of academic and extracurricular offerings, and yes, the diversity. We value diversity here with all of its complications and yes, we do still have work to do on that front. But, I will take what we have here over anything offered in the area. L2DB and Andrew61 seem determined to tear down an ideal in Shaker that is hard to achieve, but worth fighting for. For what reason, I will never know.