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The order would change by the Bay Area and DFW swapping spots. There is a difference of only 65,000.
As for latinos, the same can be said for Filipinos and Asians. Many come to this country and find themselves working lower wage jobs.
Actually no they are not; will track it down, been away from my computer. Not to mention DFW is adding like 120K residents plus a year
And on your point; yes they basically wash each other out
DFW is the 5th largest TV market in households and people
But now you know how Philly feels when it constantly gets dicked for MSA numbers because of NYC
The interaction and distance between DC/Baltimore can't be compared to NYC and Philly. If you measure a line from the D.C. proper edge north to the Baltimore proper edge, that distance could probably fit into the Philly MSA. They are not anything like the connection between Philly proper and NYC proper. A region can sprawl for hundreds of miles. City proper lines are defined and the D.C. proper line and Baltimore proper line are down the road from each other. They are extremly different cites but they are right near each other none the less. Apples and Oranges.
The interaction and distance between DC/Baltimore can't be compared to NYC and Philly. If you measure a line from the D.C. proper edge north to the Baltimore proper edge, that distance could probably fit into the Philly MSA. They are not anything like the connection between Philly proper and NYC proper. A region can sprawl for hundreds of miles. City proper lines are defined and the D.C. proper line and Baltimore proper line are down the road from each other. They are extremly different cites but they are right near each other none the less. Apples and Oranges.
NYC proper and Philadelphia are 46 miles at their closest borders. DC proper and Baltimore proper are about 28 miles apart
The distance to Trenton proper from Philadelphia proper is only 12 miles. That is the MSA border (closer than Reston is to the District proper)
Though on the whole they are different, agree Philadelphia and NYC are more seperate areas on the whole with a ton more people in the area. The space between NYC and Philly holds more people than the whole DC MSA; this excludes the cities and all burbs not on the general path.
Philly DMA is high in rank, but it gets a boost partially because it encompasses most of the Lehigh Valley (Allentown) which is not in the same MSA or even CSA as it.
Part of this is because back in the 1950's/1960's, the network broadcasters refused broadcasters in that area from having its own network affiliates as being too close. The networks owned and operated stations in Philadelphia and New York, so ABE network affiliates would have bled into NW NJ and Montgomery County, PA.
Now, the Allentown-Bethlehem area sees an influx of ex-NY area population as well, and has no transit link into Philadelphia (because the rail service was discontinued over 30 years ago) and thus low commutership.
However, Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia is the exclusive sports RSN in that area. The NY sports teams can't claim that area, even though Bethlehem is equidistant to parts of NY area (e.g. EWR airport) as to Philadelphia (e.g. PHL airport). I just mention airports because the local airport ABE suffers leakage from both EWR and PHL.
Philly DMA is quite large, but it's partially because it encompasses most of the Lehigh Valley (Allentown) which is not in the same MSA or even CSA as it.
Part of this is because back in the 1950's/1960's, the network broadcasters refused broadcasters in that area from having its own network affiliates as being too close. The networks owned and operated stations in Philadelphia and New York.
Allentown-Bethlehem sees an influx of ex-NY area population as well, and has no transit link into Philadelphia and thus low commutership.
However, Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia is the exclusive sports RSN. The NY RSNs can't claim that area, even though Bethlehem is equidistant to parts of NY area (e.g. EWR airport) as to Philadelphia (e.g. PHL airport). I just mention airports because the local airport ABE suffers leakage from both EWR and PHL.
Agreed; though the Lehigh valley is very close to meeting the CSA connection with Philly which would add nearly a milion to the CSA
Also the Philly DMA includes Atlantic and Mercer counties in NJ. Mercer is an historic Philly MSA county now a NYC CSA county.
On sports it seems that Northhampton and Lehigh would lean pretty strongly toward Philly teams versus NYC teams sans NYC transplants that mostly commute into the 78/202/287 corrider from that area when heading that direction. Alentown as an MSA sends commuters in many directions actually
NYC proper and Philadelphia are 46 miles at their closest borders. DC proper and Baltimore proper are about 28 miles apart
The distance to Trenton proper from Philadelphia proper is only 12 miles. That is the MSA border (closer than Reston is to the District proper)
Though on the whole they are different, agree Philadelphia and NYC are more seperate areas on the whole with a ton more people in the area. The space between NYC and Philly holds more people than the whole DC MSA; this excludes the cities and all burbs not on the general path.
And that 46 miles isn't even taking into account the linear shape of Philadelphia proper. Think about how far Center City is from Manhattan for instance. There is just no comparison. People travel between DC's MSA and Baltimore's MSA freely for everything from shopping and entertainment to work. If you live in Montgomery County or northern Prince George's county, Baltimore is around the corner. You are closer to Baltimore than Alexandria or Arlington VA for many in D.C.'s northern suburbs. The shape of DC and Bmore vs. Philly and NYC's metro area's is very different which plays into the differences as well. Also, most people in Montgomery County and Prince George's County have way more in common with Howard County and Anne Arundel County than Fairfax County, Loudon County, or Prince William County.
And that 46 miles isn't even taking into account the linear shape of Philadelphia proper. Think about how far Center City is from Manhattan for instance. There is just no comparison. People travel between DC's MSA and Baltimore's MSA freely for everything from shopping and entertainment to work. If you live in Montgomery County or northern Prince George's county Baltimore is around the corner. You are closer to Baltimore than Alexandria or Arlington VA for many in D.C.'s northern suburbs. The shape of our metro area's is very different which plays into the differences as well. Also, most people in Montgomery County and Prince George's County have way more in common with Howard County and Anne Arundel County than Fairfax County, Loudon County, or Prince William County.
Agreed on the Central cities, ~70 miles on a line - Philly only extends North about 6 miles from City Hall actually
But on the commuters, the absolute numbers that go from the Philly MSA to the Mercer MSA and NYC MSA are probably much higher than you think. There are HUGE job centers all along the space that connects, the flow in this area is large, in absolutes may actually exceed the DC/Baltimore interplay actually just as a percentage of the metros it is a smaller percentage as they are larger bases (denominators)
In terms of having in commonalities; there is not stark line in this space. If you say Philly and BK are different, yes, But are Bucks, Burlington, Somerset, Mercer, Hunterdon, Ocean etc all that different, no not so much. I lived in the District, PG, and Fairfax counties as well. While I agree DC/Balt is more one place; the space between NYC and Philly gets pretty grey and is pretty consistently developed just further with more people. But when you talk about people freely moving across the borders, trust me that dynamic is no different here in this space. Just last week I was in 4 seperate MSAs to drive between two meetings for work, travel time was 1:15 minutes. I spent half my youth in Bucs county and traveling accross MSA line was nothing; Princeton was 20 minutes etc.
It isnt as different in that regard as you suggest, the closer to the central city cores, yes but the space in the middle has huge connectivity and overlap. NYC never ends before the Philly area begins and the flow is an afterthought. People can commute from the Philly MSA through the Trento MSA to the NYC MSA to job centers like Hightstown in 25 minutes; they are really close and flow right into one another. That dynamic would be like commuting from Columbia to Rockville (actually would take less time) and the drive would feel about the same in terms of developemnt, outside the core but developed with many job centers etc.
Agreed on the Central cities, ~70 miles on a line - Philly only extends North about 6 miles from City Hall actually
But on the commuters, the absolute numbers that go from the Philly MSA to the Mercer MSA and NYC MSA are probably much higher than you think. There are HUGE job centers all along the space that connects, the flow in this area is large, in absolutes may actually exceed the DC/Baltimore interplay actually just as a percentage of the metros it is a smaller percentage as they are larger bases (denominators)
In terms of having in commonalities; there is not stark line in this space. If you say Philly and BK are different, yes, But are Bucks, Burlington, Somerset, Mercer, Hunterdon, Ocean etc all that different, no not so much. I lived in the District, PG, and Fairfax counties as well. While I agree DC/Balt is more one place; the space between NYC and Philly gets pretty grey and is pretty consistently developed just further with more people. But when you talk about people freely moving across the borders, trust me that dynamic is no different here in this space. Just last week I was in 4 seperate MSAs to drive between two meetings for work, travel time was 1:15 minutes. I spent half my youth in Bucs county and traveling accross MSA line was nothing; Princeton was 20 minutes etc.
It isnt as different in that regard as you suggest, the closer to the central city cores, yes but the space in the middle has huge connectivity and overlap. NYC never ends before the Philly area begins and the flow is an afterthought. People can commute from the Philly MSA through the Trento MSA to the NYC MSA to job centers like Hightstown in 25 minutes; they are really close and flow right into one another. That dynamic would be like commuting from Columbia to Rockville (actually would take less time) and the drive would feel about the same in terms of developemnt, outside the core but developed with many job centers etc.
I agree that NYC and Philly sprawl for hundreds of miles and definetly overlap. I'm talking about city urban lifestyles. DC and Baltimore city are close to each other and people go into each city easily. That is not the case in NYC proper and Philly proper. Technically in time, all the metro areas in the northeast will touch. But low density metro sprawl is not really what I'm talking about. I mean dense and urban DC proper and dense and urban Baltimore proper are down the street from each other and people in the Maryland counties can enjoy either with ease. This is not the case for NYC proper in relation to Philly proper for people in either metros. People in our region also attend each others sporting events easily. There is just no comparison.
The interaction and distance between DC/Baltimore can't be compared to NYC and Philly. If you measure a line from the D.C. proper edge north to the Baltimore proper edge, that distance could probably fit into the Philly MSA. They are not anything like the connection between Philly proper and NYC proper. A region can sprawl for hundreds of miles. City proper lines are defined and the D.C. proper line and Baltimore proper line are down the road from each other. They are extremly different cites but they are right near each other none the less. Apples and Oranges.
I did not mean city to city distance... I meant that the New York metro steals numbers from the Philly metro with Mercer County in NJ. Philly and NYC cannot be compared with DC and Baltimore in terms of connectivity and I was absolutely not arguing with you on that. I just was saying I can relate to your feeling of DC being chumped on numbers due to the proximity of another large city (i.e. Philly being chumped on numbers because of the proximity of NYC and it's sprawling CSA scooping up a historic Philly MSA county in NJ).
I did not mean city to city distance... I meant that the New York metro steals numbers from the Philly metro with Mercer County in NJ. Philly and NYC cannot be compared with DC and Baltimore in terms of connectivity and I was absolutely not arguing with you on that. I just was saying I can relate to your feeling of DC being chumped on numbers due to the proximity of another large city (i.e. Philly being chumped on numbers because of the proximity of NYC and it's sprawling CSA scooping up a historic Philly MSA county in NJ).
O ok cool.
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