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Thanks for posting. I'm in the middle of reading it and I find it very informative.
You're welcome. There is an abundance of information available from theologians and scholars who are imminently qualified to properly bring into the English language that which is spoken of in the original languages. And who know the culture of the people of those Biblical times and can tell us what the Jews understood the meaning of Sheol, Hades, and gehenna to be. And they understood that Jesus used the word gehenna to refer to the very real lake of fire.
The Jews knew a great many things. They knew the scriptures front to back. They also taught many people what they knew and were very educated. They had great arguments and all of the people on sabbath day surely listened to them with great interest.
Why die they kill the messiah they were waiting for?
I read the link that Mike555 posted and have quite a few good rebuttals, but I have GOT to go to bed. Does anybody else care to take over for the night?
The Jews knew a great many things. They knew the scriptures front to back. They also taught many people what they knew and were very educated. They had great arguments and all of the people on sabbath day surely listened to them with great interest.
Why die they kill the messiah they were waiting for?
I read the link that Mike555 posted and have quite a few good rebuttals, but I have GOT to go to bed. Does anybody else care to take over for the night?
LOL I just got back on and apparently have some catching up to do! But I think I will sleep on it.
As for the Jews... better to go to a Judaism website for that information such as What Jews Believe
To address that website Mike posted is unneccessary. If Mike wants to debate what he writes that is one thing but we can't refute a whole webpage on a forum, so don't feel like you have to. There is no excuse for believing God will torture mankind but there are plenty of reason why they choose to believe it. I find no biblical proof stated in this whole thread that could convince anyone that hell exists! But then again I haven't quite caught up on all the posts either... See you tomorrow!
The Jews knew a great many things. They knew the scriptures front to back. They also taught many people what they knew and were very educated. They had great arguments and all of the people on sabbath day surely listened to them with great interest.
Why die they kill the messiah they were waiting for?
They didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah because they were seeking deliverance from the tyranny of Rome, they were looking for a political hope rather than a spiritual hope and all the prophecies didn't take place (BUT that will happen in the 2nd coming!)
They didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah because they were seeking deliverance from the tyranny of Rome, they were looking for a political hope rather than a spiritual hope and all the prophecies didn't take place (BUT that will happen in the 2nd coming!)
They didn't believe in Jesus because Jesus was not the god they saw in their bible and i would be pretty sure they had leather bound bibles that had not been mistranslated .
If you have seen me you have seen the Father.
Search the scripture for in them you think you have eternal life , but they are they which testify of me
Deu 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
2 Sam 22:6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
Job 11:8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
Job 26:6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psa 18:5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
Psa 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in ther dwellings, and among them.
Psa 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
Psa 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Prov 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
Prov 7:27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
Prov 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.
Prov 15:11 Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the chldren of men?
Prov 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.
Prov 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Prov 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.
Isa 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isa 57:9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.
Ezek 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
Ezek 31:17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
Ezek 32:21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
Ezek 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to their hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
Amos 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:
Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
Hab 2:5 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
You are being foolish if you think these verses are really referring to hell. First of all, I believe these are all from the KJV, which completely mistranslated hell in the OT.
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
So you really think God is in hell?
Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
So Jonah went to hell and then got out? I thought he was in a fish? I thought you couldn't get out of hell?
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
So if you insult someone (say Raca to someone), you may be judged by council, but if you call someone a fool (also an insult), you are in danger of hell?
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Since Jesus has the keys to hell, why do people claim it is locked on the inside? Why doesn't Jesus let them out? Doesn't He want to save them anymore?
And when you are quoting Mark 9, don't forget verse 49:
Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
48 where " 'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.' 49 Everyone will be salted with fire.
As I said in my previous post, these two links are a good start to understanding "hell" in the bible. They cover and analyze EVERY case where the word "sheol" is translated in the KJV. Its a good study aid: Sheol Translated Grave Sheol Translated Hell
Some other good links on hell and its pagan history:
I don't think it can be done using scripture (or anything else for that matter) but so many think "hell" actually exists and people will actually burn in "hell" forever.
So prove to me that hell exists.
Can you prove that its not? You started the topic so bring us the proof. Only someone who is unable to fight against scripture will say you can't use scripture. You have tried this before without any leg to stand on and I still see you are at it. But this time you are taking the bible out because you know you can't fight against scripture. LOL, it doesn't matter what you say, God says Hell exist, so your words will never stand up against what He says to be true. But I'm sure you will try, so hey your choice. You say that Hell doesn't exist, and God does, who is telling the lie? That is easy, God never lies and He even says that............
Show us your great proof that Hell doesn't exist!! I'm sure we are only dealing with your opinion as usual. LOL
Are you saying that God, Jesus is telling a lie? Luke 16:23-24
We are not talking about what you think the word Hell means, we are talking about what is being said. It says hell, either you believe it or not. If you don't then you are not believing God, nothing else. There is nothing you are saying that is being said proving anything or proving God wrong.......
Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 03-26-2010 at 08:08 AM..
Can you prove that its not? You started the topic so bring us the proof. Only someone who is unable to fight against scripture will say you can't use scripture. You have tried this before without any leg to stand on and I still see you are at it. But this time you are taking the bible out because you know you can't fight against scripture. LOL, it doesn't matter what you say, God says Hell exist, so your words will never stand up against what He says to be true. But I'm sure you will try, so hey your choice. You say that Hell doesn't exist, and God does, who is telling the lie? That is easy, God never lies and He even says that............
Actually I believe I asked for it to be proven BY using scripture... you quoted my OP... not sure why you don't see that I am asking others to prove hell exists using scripture. Therefore, you don't have to worry about anything else BUT scripture although I would welcome any proofs not just the bible.
Quote:
Show us your great proof that Hell doesn't exist!! I'm sure we are only dealing with your opinion as usual. LOL
Well my great proof is that the words translated as "hell" do not mean a fiery torture pit for humans so you have to change the meaning of the original language in order to even see hell... hell as defined by modern Christians did not exist when the scripture was written.... So why should I think Sheol, Hades, Tartaroo, and Gehenna are really big pits of fire for burning unbelievers?
You tell me why I should modify the original meaning of those words to conform to the modern definition of hell (burning pit of torture for unbelievers)
Sheol and Hades were both "unseen" not burning.... Gehenna was a garbage dump and 1st century lingo for a bad punishment. Tartaroo was believed to be were celestial beings were thrown when they misbehaved...
So where is hell? I just proved that the original words cannot and never did mean eternal place of burning for unbelievers (hell).
So now you can counter.
Quote:
Are you saying that God, Jesus is telling a lie? Luke 16:23-24
We are not talking about what you think the word Hell means, we are talking about what is being said. It says hell, either you believe it or not. If you don't then you are not believing God, nothing else. There is nothing you are saying that is being said proving anything or proving God wrong.......
Actually we are talking about what YOU think the word hell means... does the definition of hell you have... burning torture pit for unbelievers... fit the definition of Sheol, Hades, Tartaroo, or Gehenna? I don't think so but you can show me why you think it does if you wish....
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Only someone who is unable to fight against scripture will say you can't use scripture. You have tried this before without any leg to stand on and I still see you are at it. But this time you are taking the bible out because you know you can't fight against scripture. LOL, it doesn't matter what you say, God says Hell exist, so your words will never stand up against what He says to be true. But I'm sure you will try, so hey your choice. You say that Hell doesn't exist, and God does, who is telling the lie? That is easy, God never lies and He even says that............
