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Legoman- This may be silly, but I've always wondered, do you like legos a lot? Just wondering because my husband loves them
Yes I do love lego
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I have a question for you, why do we all deserve heaven? Are we not sinners? We all deserve hell! It is by God's grace that we are given the opportunity to accept His gift of eternal life! This is God's love! He loves us SO much that He has given us a way to not get what we deserve- hell!
Personally I don't think we deserve anything at all. We didn't deserve to be born, we didn't "deserve" life, and we certainly don't deserve to be tormented forever, even for the very worst sin you could think of.
Probably what we deserve is death. That is what the wages of sin is: death.
Think about it, none of us asked to be born, none of us asked for life, none of us asked to be sinners. So why would we deserve anything? Its really all up to God.
Because of God's love, we have life, and because of God's love, He will free us from this bondage to sin. At least that is what the scriptures say (Romans 8:20-21 for instance).
Does it fit yes it does. Will you actually do the research to see how, I doubt it, as you have shown in the past and have actually said that you don't believe what scripture says? LOL, you say you don't believe the bible, actually what God said to be true. LOL, I don't and want tell you to do anything. I have already studied the words in the language it was presented in. What you do is your choice and have shown that you simply don't take the bible for what it say.
So, what, that is your choice. Some people walk to their own beat, even when they are way in left field. LOL, sorry, I just don't take anything that you say creditable, since you even said in your own words things that were not there in scripture and adding things or saying things that was in scripture. LOL, you say hell or heaven doesn't exist, and even had to say, well yes, it does say the Father spoke from Heaven, but I still don't believe in Heaven. LOL, a complete waste of time. That is like me saying that red cars don't exist, when one is driving down the road. Blind and foolish. Goodbye, for now, will be back if I want to waste an entire day with someone who will actually say they don't believe in what is in scripture. You play that game very well.
You are again misrepresenting what I have said...Do I need to pull up the posts where we discussed this? Just because people perceive things (such as a voice from above) does not mean the "above" actually exists and is tangible.
God is bigger than any heaven... I showed you the verses...which you ignored... and you are famous for stuff like this.
Saying that hades MUST BE fiery because it is thrown into the fire so we can go back and replace hades, sheol etc with hell (dante's inferno) is ridiculous IMO.
BTW- You don't think I am credible not creditable...
I believe the scripture and I am asking for scripture to prove that hell exists as a literal place where people are tortured for eternity.. I've seen alot of supposition but no proof as of yet... Hades and Sheol might mean a fiery place of torment to you and perhaps other Christians but did the 1st century Christian believe what you believe... obviously not or they would have used a derivative of hellfire... right. You know the languages... what is the greek word for hellfire?
From Wikipedia (not the best source but we can find the links to the sources there if need be)
"In classic Greek mythology, below Heaven, Earth, and Pontus is Tartarus, or Tartaros (Greek Τάρταρος, deep place). It is either a deep, gloomy place, a pit or abyss used as a dungeon of torment and suffering that resides within Hades (the entire underworld) with Tartarus being the hellish component. In the Gorgias, Plato (c. 400 BC) wrote that souls were judged after death and those who received punishment were sent to Tartarus. As a place of punishment, it can be considered a hell. The classic Hades, on the other hand, is more similar to Old Testament Sheol."
So Sheol, or Hades, cannot have been written in the bible to mean a burning pit of torture such as the Christian Hell....
Tartaros is found once.... Gehenna was Greek "slang" for humiliating punishment for the guilty, by being the place where criminals dead bodies were burned with the garbage. and where the great adultery occurred by sacrificing children to a false God. IOW -you will be punished and humiliated in the worst way possible.
And had nothing to do with the fire or the burning being eternal but that there was always more fuel - the garbage and wicked criminals.
Notice they are DEAD bodies and cannot feel a thing.
But you know all this so I don't know why I am rambling...
Personally I don't think we deserve anything at all. We didn't deserve to be born, we didn't "deserve" life, and we certainly don't deserve to be tormented forever, even for the very worst sin you could think of.
Probably what we deserve is death. That is what the wages of sin is: death.
Think about it, none of us asked to be born, none of us asked for life, none of us asked to be sinners. So why would we deserve anything? Its really all up to God.
Because of God's love, we have life, and because of God's love, He will free us from this bondage to sin. At least that is what the scriptures say (Romans 8:20-21 for instance).
Quote:
I have a question for you, why do we all deserve heaven? Are we not sinners? We all deserve hell! It is by God's grace that we are given the opportunity to accept His gift of eternal life! This is God's love! He loves us SO much that He has given us a way to not get what we deserve- hell!
YES!! That's it!! That's what we've been saying all along!! ONE MUST ACCEPT THIS gift of eternal life! That's all!
Quote:
I have a question for you, why do we all deserve heaven? Are we not sinners? We all deserve hell! It is by God's grace that we are given the opportunity to accept His gift of eternal life! This is God's love! He loves us SO much that He has given us a way to not get what we deserve- hell!
YES!! That's it!! That's what we've been saying all along!! ONE MUST ACCEPT THIS gift of eternal life! That's all!
Why do you think God's creation... his human beings he Himself created deserve to be tortured forever and ever and ever?
I don't think it can be done using scripture (or anything else for that matter) but so many think "hell" actually exists and people will actually burn in "hell" forever.
So prove to me that hell exists.
Do you exist? Do you suffer? Do you feel pain? If the answer to any of these question are yes then you prove hell for yourself.LOL
I dont think anyone can prove to anyone that hell really exist or not but the sun is pretty hot and if you cannot die then it would be pretty painful to be stranded there.
No. The fool is one who presumes to impose his notions of what God's justice should be on God.
God's justice? Does God have a different definition of that word than we do? If you speak English and believe fool means fool, and impose means impose, then why can't you believe that Justice means Justice?? You don't seem to have any problem believing lake of fire means lake of fire, even though in the same passage you probably have trouble believing lamb means lamb. The definition of justice in this regard is "the administering of deserved punishment or reward."
Analogy: In 1950 there was a 16-year-old boy who loved his parents and was obedient, had compassion and concern for others, and never did any "big" sins. Through the years he went to church and read the bible some, but he was busy with scouts, sports, homework, and chores. He never got around to realizing that he had "head knowledge" of Jesus and not "heart knowledge" and never asked Jesus to save him.
He had a car wreck and died, and for the past 60 years he has been burning. He is crying out to God RIGHT NOW as you and I sit at our computers. He's begging for forgiveness. He's telling God he learned his lesson and if He gives Him another chance, he'll kneel and bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. God just tells Him it's too late because the rules are set and since He is a just and fair God, He will stick with the plan.
I've given the definition of justice, and not just my notion of what it means. Knowing that, can you honestly tell me you think in the analogy God was administering deserved punishment? I'm not asking for talking points scripture to say the boy should have done this or not. I'm asking you to think with your reasoning about the definition of justice to answer.
If it's not justice, then God could not send that boy to hell for not yet accepting Christ because he IS just. That is his unchangeable character.
If one believes it is justice, that the boy truly deserved that kind of punishment, then they are out of their mind as crazy as Hitler, and are too hard-hearted to change without a miracle awakening from God.
Justice is Justice. "God's Justice" is still Justice. It is what it is. You can't make up your own notions about what that means.
God's justice? Does God have a different definition of that word than we do? If you speak English and believe fool means fool, and impose means impose, then why can't you believe that Justice means Justice?? You don't seem to have any problem believing lake of fire means lake of fire, even though in the same passage you probably have trouble believing lamb means lamb. The definition of justice in this regard is "the administering of deserved punishment or reward."
Analogy: In 1950 there was a 16-year-old boy who loved his parents and was obedient, had compassion and concern for others, and never did any "big" sins. Through the years he went to church and read the bible some, but he was busy with scouts, sports, homework, and chores. He never got around to realizing that he had "head knowledge" of Jesus and not "heart knowledge" and never asked Jesus to save him.
He had a car wreck and died, and for the past 60 years he has been burning. He is crying out to God RIGHT NOW as you and I sit at our computers. He's begging for forgiveness. He's telling God he learned his lesson and if He gives Him another chance, he'll kneel and bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. God just tells Him it's too late because the rules are set and since He is a just and fair God, He will stick with the plan.
I've given the definition of justice, and not just my notion of what it means. Knowing that, can you honestly tell me you think in the analogy God was administering deserved punishment? I'm not asking for talking points scripture to say the boy should have done this or not. I'm asking you to think with your reasoning about the definition of justice to answer.
If it's not justice, then God could not send that boy to hell for not yet accepting Christ because he IS just. That is his unchangeable character.
If one believes it is justice, that the boy truly deserved that kind of punishment, then they are out of their mind as crazy as Hitler, and are too hard-hearted to change without a miracle awakening from God.
Justice is Justice. "God's Justice" is still Justice. It is what it is. You can't make up your own notions about what that means.
But, yes, I have been researching. My dad understood languages better than I do (I have been studying Hebrew).
He was the one that got me started on all this. He has studied Greek, Hebrew, Latin, you name it. He also knows a great deal of history and pagan thought and where all the ideas and philosophies came from.
He is a retired computer programmer and has been studying these things more than ever since he retired in 1990.
It helps to have the internet!
It's no big deal. I found out a long time ago about the words and how they are used. I use many versions, and research in the bible that our version was translated from. I prefer the New Kings James Versions (which is a study bible), but study many. The version or bible that I used often places the correct words where they should be, or atleast in the footnotes.
But often I do the research on my own. If they are taking the hell, hades, grave, sheol, gehenna and others or these words in scripture I always check in the hebrew or greek language to see what word fits. I started doing this along time ago, and encourage others to do the same.
If you don't have the Jewish bible you can use this tool, which will help you in reference of understanding where the words properly fit. But you will still have to research on your own outside of this. Enjoy
God's justice? Does God have a different definition of that word than we do? If you speak English and believe fool means fool, and impose means impose, then why can't you believe that Justice means Justice?? You don't seem to have any problem believing lake of fire means lake of fire, even though in the same passage you probably have trouble believing lamb means lamb. The definition of justice in this regard is "the administering of deserved punishment or reward."
Analogy: In 1950 there was a 16-year-old boy who loved his parents and was obedient, had compassion and concern for others, and never did any "big" sins. Through the years he went to church and read the bible some, but he was busy with scouts, sports, homework, and chores. He never got around to realizing that he had "head knowledge" of Jesus and not "heart knowledge" and never asked Jesus to save him.
He had a car wreck and died, and for the past 60 years he has been burning. He is crying out to God RIGHT NOW as you and I sit at our computers. He's begging for forgiveness. He's telling God he learned his lesson and if He gives Him another chance, he'll kneel and bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. God just tells Him it's too late because the rules are set and since He is a just and fair God, He will stick with the plan.
I've given the definition of justice, and not just my notion of what it means. Knowing that, can you honestly tell me you think in the analogy God was administering deserved punishment? I'm not asking for talking points scripture to say the boy should have done this or not. I'm asking you to think with your reasoning about the definition of justice to answer.
If it's not justice, then God could not send that boy to hell for not yet accepting Christ because he IS just. That is his unchangeable character.
If one believes it is justice, that the boy truly deserved that kind of punishment, then they are out of their mind as crazy as Hitler, and are too hard-hearted to change without a miracle awakening from God.
Justice is Justice. "God's Justice" is still Justice. It is what it is. You can't make up your own notions about what that means.
Gods ways are above our ways and His thoughts are above our thoughts. God's holiness is not subject to human notions of what it should be.
God's justice is the function of His integrity whereas His righteousness is the principle of His integrity. God's integrity is His holiness. More than any other attribute of God, it is His holiness that is emphasized. Actually His holiness probably shouldn't be referred to as an attribute. His holiness is the sum total of the perfection of all His attributes.
God's love cannot ignore and cannot override the requirements of His holiness. The perfection of God cannot allow any offense to His righteousness to go unpunished. Sin is an infinite offense against an infinite and eternal God.
God provided the means of escaping the penalty of sin through the work of Christ on the Cross. In becoming our substitute, Christ bore the penalty for our sins. But when any member of the human race rejects Christ as Savior, then what Christ accomplished on the Cross is not applied to that person and therefore that person remains under condemnation.
Jesus said in John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.''
Death is not cessation of existence, but rather, it is to be brought to a state of utter ruin and eternal uselessness, forever separated from God.
Man is born into the world already under condemnation. He is born physically alive but spiritually dead. Separated from God in time. If he physically dies without having received the free gift of eternal salvation through faith in Christ, then his spiritual death is perpetuated throughout all eternity as the second death, which is permanent residence in the lake of fire.
God has given man free will so that man may choose for or against God. And man is held responsible by God for his decisions regarding his relationship with God, or the lack thereof. God has done everything in His power to provide salvation for man without interfering with man's volition. If a person rejects the offer of salvation then he is eternally lost.
It matters not how much are ignored, the scriptures that make it abundantly clear that God will send away from His presence and into the eternal fire; it matters not how desperately people attempt to explain away the scriptures that speak of eternal torment; God has stated the reality of the matter and He means what He says.
Matthew 25:41 ''Then He wil also say to those on His left, ''Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46) ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
These are the words spoken by Jesus Himself concerning the judgment of Tribulational unbelievers. On His orders, all Tribulational unbelievers will be sent away into the eternal fire. The Great White Throne Judgment of all other unbelievers will occur some one thousand years later as per Revelation 20:11-15. And it is absolutely just on the part of God.
How fallen mankind feels about it is of no matter. The guilty object to the sentence for their crime, but they don't have any say in how they should be punished.
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