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It's an effort to do ANYTHING.
It's like your heart is swimming in thick pea soup, with about a thousand pound weight sitting on top of it.
The sun shining on your skin almost hurts you, because you cannot feel the joy of it. Seeing flowers rise up in your garden come Spring, and you almost hate them... because their cheerfulness and what they symbolize can't even touch you. It's like your whole being is sitting inside of some invisible cloak and no amount of sunshine can penetrate it...
Been there.
Never want to visit ever again. Sometimes I take a weekend getaway there, unexpectedly.
But it's not somewhere I ever want to "live" again. ever.
I will say that I feel God really pulled me through.
So many little weird things, I just can't deny.
I know some don't believe and I understand that.
But, I can't deny what helped me.
Everyone is different.
And different things work for different people.
I have nothing but the utmost compassion for others who have swam in the pea soup of depression. Most people don't understand. And that just makes it all the worse.
peace,
sparrow
A weekend getaway, huh.......Nice description. If feels like you've been run over by a train. Definitely unexpected. Very strange. Happy as can be and then WHAM! Black hole.
The human mind, is designed to follow virtue and logic in both physical and spiritual survival.
When our being is under siege through unfounded accusation, interpretation of ones innermost thoughts without evidence we quickly and logically reject the aggression.
This is why ............
The enlightened are easily identify ed, bereft of self glorification and without the aggression of broad sweeping and pointed generalization......The enlightened come,
In Peace ( by the way Purple heart, you definately did not satisfy question put forward by myself in earlier post, I believe page 10....I also believe you know this..)(no doubt about it)
The human mind, is designed to follow virtue and logic in both physical and spiritual survival.
When our being is under siege through unfounded accusation, interpretation of ones innermost thoughts without evidence we quickly and logically reject the aggression.
This is why ............
The enlightened are easily identify ed, bereft of self glorification and without the aggression of broad sweeping and pointed generalization......The enlightened come,
In Peace ( by the way Purple heart, you definately did not satisfy question put forward by myself in earlier post, I believe page 10....I also believe you know this..)(no doubt about it)
I gave a valid answer to your question. I am sorry it's not the answer you expected or wanted or demanded, but that is the answer I gave and still remain.
We have never had this amount of "depressed" people in Earths history as we do today. And that is because in the last decade people are bombarded with materialism, self-image marketing and having celebrities on TV showing how "beautiful and successful" they are.
This has caused people to COVET, to want more and more, and to look better, to have more money, to be more successful, to be famous etc. And when they know they cannot get all of that, they become "depressed" and some even take their own lives. It's all due to COVETING, and that is why God warned us about it and commands us. Exodus 20:17 THOU SHALT NOT COVET...
Ever since society labeled coveting as "depression and an illness", more and more people have become depressed, because now they have a justification and excuse to covet, blaming an external force that they cannot control. Millions of anti-depressant prescriptions were written last year in AU, USA and worldwide, and that is shocking. Stop coveting and be grateful for what you have, and then your depressive thoughts will disappear. DO NOT COVET and STOP BEING SO SELF-FOCUSED,and you will heal.
As long as you keep blaming an "uncontrollable external force" for your unhappiness, the longer you will feel miserable. The solution is to stop coveting and be grateful for what you have. That's why Bible warns against coveting. And be loving and kind to others, that will also give you happiness.
As long as you keep blaming some "disorder or uncontrollable external force" for your unhappiness, the longer you will feel miserable. There is no "disorder" that you cannot control. That is your way to put blame away from your own selfish coveting thoughts. The solution is to stop coveting and be grateful for what you have. That's why Bible warns against coveting. And be loving and kind to others, that will also give you happiness. God bless your heart.
The answer is found in the TENTH Commandment - THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Depressed people are "depressed" because they covet, and wish they had something more than what they have. They do not focus on the gratitude of what they have (glass half full), instead they focus on what they don't have (glass half empty) and are ungrateful for that. That is why they have depressing thoughts. Its about how a person views themselves, the world and their future, and they are negative and ungrateful about that.
People don't have "depression or Bipolar" that is caused from some uncontrollable "external force". The depressive thinking is self-induced, caused by abusive personality, coveting, very aggressive negative thinking. People suffer depressive thinking from their own free choices. They are very ungrateful for what they have, and they hate others who have more than them. And that has caused jealousy, animosity and bitterness, which in effect causes them to experience low and depressive moods.
People don't have "depression", they have depressive thoughts. It's normal to go through stages of negative thoughts, like the seasons of life, we at times go through sunny summers, and gloomy winters. However, when a person habitually begins to focus on coveting,then it's a problem. If you are honest,you will admit that whenever you feel "depressed" it is because you are having ungrateful thoughts, and wished you had something else or more in your life. No wonder God warned us about coveting.
As I have mentioned earlier, I was diagnosed with "depression and Bipolar" and took medication for years. Then one day I changed my thinking and focus, away from coveting and embracing who I am and being grateful for what I have. From that day on, I have not had "depression" ever since.
What I also realised was that I was being "depressed" to get attention. We all hunger in the soul to be noticed and get attention, so many people are "depressed" in order to feed their human need for attention.
The Bible says, "DO NOT COVET", and it's written for a reason.
Nonsense, complete and total nonsense. If I went on any further and said what I really think of your coveting theory I would be banned from C-D forever.
I gave a valid answer to your question. I am sorry it's not the answer you expected or wanted or demanded, but that is the answer I gave and still remain.
I don't want to upset you, it looks like you have had quite a time here.
The victim of un-speakable torture, will always sink into depression, if survived.
That is a fact. It has nothing to do with Sunday School.
Judging with accusations of covet, and self pity, would suggest an inability
to taste the "horror's of affliction. If renewed spiritual pledge worked for you,
thats wonderful. Perhaps that remedy was ideal for you.
Be easy and gentle on the injured. Accusations in
a persons inner most being are illogical because...
Man has never been able to "know" what lies in another's heart.
This is where
the virtue of Charity has its foundation , opening the door to genuine compassion !
Last edited by stargazzer; 07-29-2010 at 10:22 PM..
Nonsense, complete and total nonsense. If I went on any further and said what I really think of your coveting theory I would be banned from C-D forever.
I disagree with your comments because the proof is in the pudding, I no longer have "depression" and have helped 100s others out of "depression", so saying my techniques and strategies to combat "depression" is nonsense is totally invalid and usually only said by people who do not want to escape the depressive thoughts they have. As I have mentioned earlier, some people, shockingly, are happy to be miserable and those type of people will remain depressed and will attack any help to escape it.
I don't want to upset you, it looks like you have had quite a time here.
The victim of un-speakable torture, will always sink into depression, if survived.
That is a fact. It has nothing to do with Sunday School.
Judging with accusations of covet, and self pity, would suggest an inability
to taste the "horror's of affliction. If renewed spiritual pledge worked for you,
thats wonderful. Perhaps that remedy was ideal for you.
Be easy and gentle on the injured. Accusations in
a persons inner most being are illogical because...
Man has never been able to "know" what lies in another's heart.
This is where
the virtue of Charity has its foundation , opening the door to genuine compassion !
I strongly disagree with your comments because I have known people who were tortured and have studied people who were tortured and later wrote books about their experiences. They found growth and sthrrenght in their hardship and grew to become stronger and developed great skills in how to deal and cope with life's hardship and challenges and grew to enjoy fulfilling and happy and successful lives.
Viktor Frankl is just one great example, he endured horrible torture and is a Holocaust survivor. Google him and read his story. Suffice to say he got through the tortures of hell and grew to be a very happy and successful man. He wrote a best selling book about his experience which has helped millions find happiness.
It all comes down to the MEANING a person places on their torture. Another example is women who have been raped, some view it as a way to reach out and help other rape victims and through their work they find fulfillment and happiness. "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is just one example of how certain people view their torture experience and which makes them see a bit of serendipity in their horrible experiences which in turn makes them feel better and happier.
I disagree with your comments because the proof is in the pudding, I no longer have "depression" and have helped 100s others out of "depression", so saying my techniques and strategies to combat "depression" is nonsense is totally invalid and usually only said by people who do not want to escape the depressive thoughts they have. As I have mentioned earlier, some people, shockingly, are happy to be miserable and those type of people will remain depressed and will attack any help to escape it.
Cough up the evidence by way of peer-reviewed study....or it didn't happen.
I happen to find your arrogant and smarmy comments to be dangerous in the extreme, and wholly callous and offensive to anyone suffering the agony of severe clinical depression.
Being that young children, the elderly, and some animals have displayed signs of depression (and no, I am not comparing them), your premise that their plight is due to lack of faith and/or 'covetous nature' is nothing short of PREPOSTEROUS.
Lastly, I find much amusement in watching someone liberally showering others with accusations of bearing false witness while doing the EXACT....SAME....THING.
As a MODERATOR on this forum, you should lead by example and treat people and talk to people as Jesus would. And if you are not 100% certain about something and have no proof, it's not Christ like to accuse people of lying.
Dear PurpleHeart,
This is what I am hoping will need to be my last post to you, personally, along with any other posts on this thread. Yes, I am a "moderator" on this forum, and I can humbly tell you that I became one due to whatever "example" that I may or may not have made upon the owner's of this message board. More importantly, though, I am, in fact, the "atheist mod" and yet I find something about your words, above, compelling. You see, in addition to going to college in order to pursue a degree in mental health (psychology) proir to my post-graduate studies/training, I also spent an additional four years in order to obtain an undergraduate degree in Religious Studies and Theology. If you think that I am unfamiliar with Christianity, the bible, or Christian mindset and thought, then I am here to tell you that you are sorely mistaken.
I know, and understand, what "Christ like" means, and is. I am able to identify it in my own life when I encounter it; even here, on a message board. In not being a Christian I do not feel "duty bound" to post like a "Christian" despite the fact that I have been nothing other than respectful to you, and all that you have posted, thus far. Yes, I may be a "secular" individual, but to discount my thoughts, words, or posts as being anything less than sensitive to the believing, Christian population of members on this forum would be a misrepresentation of me, as a person.
Despite what others have posted on this thread, I feel no anomosity towards you. We disagree, and I have a fairly good sense as to why that is.
Read on...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart
I apologize, I had no idea the word "sweetheart" would make you that angry and upset. I only use that word as a good will gesture, no disrespect intended, please forgive me.
I accept your apology, and will take you at your word that your reference to me was one that was made as a good will gesture, without any disrespect intended. I would hope that it is the same good will that you would afford and extend to anyone. I do not "personalize" what you said, and therefore, I can tell you sincerely that I am not "angry and upset." If nothing else, I have been on this forum long enough (three years!?) such that I would not have survived this long if I took everyone's posts "personally."
In short, I know the difference. For a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart
It's normal to be sensitive to my comments because people do not like to take full ownership of their coveting spirits.
In feeling no ill will towards you, PurpleHeart, I would like to take the liberty of pointing out to you your own words, within this thread:
"....you should lead by example and treat people and talk to people as Jesus would."
I guess that I quote the bolded portion of one of your posts, above, due to the fact that there is some inherent irony in it. You see, PurpleHeart, I have not been the one to condescend. I have challenged, I have debated, and I have backed up my posts with information and clinical data as regards the nature and seriousness of depression. Too many on this thread could all too easily come away thinking that "depression=bipolar disorder" or serious mental illness. Given my profession and the work I do on a daily basis, I have felt compelled to dispel the misconceptions and misperceptions that exist out there as regards depression, in general.
A large part of that has been to dispel what you have been advocating. I understand (whether you actually believe me or not) where you are coming from in the posts you have made, and with the passion with which you have made them. As someone who has claimed to be a psychologist, him or herself, I can only say that your bolded words, above, should be the same standard that you would hold yourself up to, and not just me, a secularly-based psychotherapist.
I am sorry that you reacted so strenously to my being skeptical as regards your claims of being a "Psychologist." My profession is precisely that. I am more than used to listening to, and being open to the opinions of others as regards issues of mental health in general, and depression, in particular. I apologize in advance for informing you that yes: I question your "credentials" in stating that you are a psychologist because I know psychologists; I know our profession, I know our training, and know what is the acceptable standard that has been research and experientially based as regards "depression." I will not, however, apologize for the fact that I am a mental health professional who has done her best to dispel and challenge much of what you have said herein. Nor will I apologize for my background, my level of education, or those universities where I was fortunate enough to receive the education and training that I did. Your posts in response to me have been far more defensive than they have engaged in any intellectual discourse or dialogue on this subject. That, in part, contributes to my being skeptical as regards your claims to be a mental health professional.
I am.
I thereby have the right to "call" an alledged "colleague" on something that speaks contrary to what "our" field represents and upholds. --Because to not do so would be doing a disservice to every individual who has posted on this thread; revealing parts of themselves that they have experienced, and who have so bravely testified to the devastation of what clinical depression is, and entails in real life.
I just wanted to clear that aspect up, PurpleHeart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart
And you have made false accusations against thy neigbour with no foundation of proof. You need to ask God why you would do that. There is no use me commenting any further seeing you have claimed I am a liar, even though you have no proof to support that, so in other words, you have accuse your neigbour of lying without evidence.
Please refer, in large part, to what I wrote, above. I am hardly one to make "false accusations" and am, quite frankly, wondering who among us is truly making "false accusations" within this thread. I do not feel the need to "ask God why" I have posted anything within this thread that I have. I am not someone who has called you a "liar." I have merely stated that I challenge your allegations of being a psychologist. Had you backed up any of your statements, or posts, with any information or data that indicated that you are, in fact, a psychologist, I would have welcomed and respected that. You, however, have not.
Rather, you have insulted, and outright demeaned your own "profession." I know that you have certainly done so, with me. I can't help but wonder what would compel someone who is a clinical psychologist to so unabashedly "bash" his or her own profession. I am at peace with what I do. You, on the other hand, seem to express some degree of conflict as regards your own (self claimed) profession. I, as a fellow physician, would naturally have the curiosity and right to wonder why...
In short, if you are able to prove to me in any reasonable sense that you hold either a Ph.D. in clinical psychology, or a Psy.D., then I am more than willing to, and would gladly revoke my reservations as regards your claims of being a psychologist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart
I realise my challenges to you are upsetting you, but you should not allow anger and emotion to lead you to falsely accusing thy neighbour.
What I think you don't realize, PurpleHeart, is that I am neither angry, nor upset by your "challenges." You see, I have my education, my training, and my years of experience behind me with enough self confidence such that I don't feel the need to resort to some kind of narcissistic posture. More importantly, however, I realize in having read through the posts on this thread that I need not defend myself in any manner or form. The members who have posted here are testament enough as regards the true nature of depression, and the role that they feel that "covetting" does not play.
In truth, I honestly feel that their words truly go farther than any attempts on my part to dispel what I feel is an inaccuarate representation of the nature of depression. In short: Their posts speak for themselves.
Perhaps you are the one who is upset and angry. I can assure you, however, I am not. You need only to read my words within this post, and their tone, to realize the validity of that statement.
Likewise, as I indicated, above, I am not someone who is into "falsely accusing my neighbor." I am, however, someone who keeps in mind at all times that I am posting on the Christianity subforum and am therefore respectfully careful in what I do, and do not say. I am not certain here who is "falsely accusing" or misrepresenting himself....I can tell you with utter honesty that it has not been me. I have no reason for defensiveness.
I don't need to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart
As a MODERATOR on this forum, you should lead by example and treat people and talk to people as Jesus would. And if you are not 100% certain about something and have no proof, it's not Christ like to accuse people of lying.
Again, as I said above, my posting in this thread is separate and apart from my role as moderator. I have been posting as any other member here on city-data, and have done my best to uphold what I know to be the truths and realities of my profession, in the best interests of dispelling what I consider false notions.
I think you need to honestly hear me when I say to you that I do not blame you, am not upset with you, and hold no ill will towards you. If anything, I have the feeling that you have had enough of that in this thread in other member's responses and reactions to you. You should have no reason to feel any anomosity from me; I feel none, and have no need to. I am not a believer, hence, I post as a nonbeliever. What I DO take exception to is the fact that you would think of accusing me of being anything less than respectful, and caring about those members who post here, daily, as Christians. I may not understand you, or some of them, but that does not give me license to condescend or disrespect them the way you have me.
That last point is something that is very, very real, as evidenced by your words to me (and them) within this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart
Just giving you honest, constructive Christian feedback. I hope you do not ban me because I share different beliefs to you.
You repeatedly keep referring to my "banning you" and saying that you hope I don't do that. I don't think you understand, PurpleHeart, that I don't dislike you, nor do I disrespect you. What has transpired here is called a "disagreement." June does not ban those whom she disagrees with. As a moderator, I am not allowed to do that. That is something I felt needed to be pointed out to you....Just as I genuinelly said I am not "upset" or "angered" by what you have posted. I honor and respect the fact that we disagree, and come from vastly different positions as regards our points of view and subsequent posts.
I'm a shrink. I don't get "upset" easily. For a reason...
Lastly, PurpleHeart, I would ask you to re-read the words of CantWait2Leave, below. Nothing has quite touched me as much as his/her post, along with many others in this thread, in a long, long time....I would hope, in referring you back to your own bolded words, above, that you would extend the same respect, compassion, understanding, and empathy that you claim your own profession upholds as it's hallmark; namely those things I just listed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave
You see my mom grew up eating out of a dumpster. Her father was an alcoholic and took all the money for booze. She would go with my grandmother to get food that was thrown out from the supermarket because it was old and couldn't be sold. I didn't grow up with much money, but I was better off than my mother was when she was a child. She taught us to be grateful and thankful for every blessing we receive from God. Being raised by a mother who went through life having literally nothing taught me to be happy and content with my life. I thank God daily for everything he's given me. I have food to eat each day, I have a bed to sleep in, I have a wonderful husband, I couldn't ask God for anything more. So no, I don't covet. I'm sorry you think everyone does and I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't.
God healed me from depression. I was also healed of anxiety and panic attacks. I would never judge someone for being medicated because it was a gift from God to have that when I was at my lowest point.
For what it's worth, human beings, by nature, "COVET" a lot of things. But in my humble and professional and life long experience, one of the things that human beings truly covet the most it would be this:
The alleviation of suffering.
...And that, in large part, is what you have heard, and read about, in this very thread. In ways in which you would disagree with, but in ways that no doubt enabled them to be in a better positioin to honor and give thanks to the grace of God in their lives.
In whatever way they did so, and found Him in so doing....
"....you should lead by example and treat people and talk to people as Jesus would."
~And that is what June has read, and experienced, in this thread from the myriad of members who were brave enough, compassionate enough, and sensitive enough to post what they did...
Originally Posted by stargazzer I don't want to upset you, it looks like you have had quite a time here.
The victim of un-speakable torture, will always sink into depression, if survived. That is a fact. It has nothing to do with Sunday School.
Judging with accusations of covet, and self pity, would suggest an inability to taste the "horror's of affliction. If renewed spiritual pledge worked for you, thats wonderful. Perhaps that remedy was ideal for you.
Be easy and gentle on the injured. Accusations in a persons inner most being are illogical because...
Man has never been able to "know" what lies in another's heart.
This is where the virtue of Charity has its foundation , opening the door to genuine compassion !
Purple heart says
I strongly disagree with your comments because I have known people who were tortured and have studied people who were tortured and later wrote books about their experiences. They found growth and sthrrenght in their hardship and grew to become stronger and developed great skills in how to deal and cope with life's hardship and challenges and grew to enjoy fulfilling and happy and successful lives.
Viktor Frankl is just one great example, he endured horrible torture and is a Holocaust survivor. Google him and read his story. Suffice to say he got through the tortures of hell and grew to be a very happy and successful man. He wrote a best selling book about his experience which has helped millions find happiness.
It all comes down to the MEANING a person places on their torture. Another example is women who have been raped, some view it as a way to reach out and help other rape victims and through their work they find fulfillment and happiness. "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is just one example of how certain people view their torture experience and which makes them see a bit of serendipity in their horrible experiences which in turn makes them feel better and happier.
Stargazzer says
Very interesting and of course you know that the marvelous rehab mentioned in a bove examples are marvelous because in all, there existed severe darkness. This is self explanatory.
The reasoning of my thought however regarding all that is said remains intact as it is not addressed. In it lies the germ of the discussions "link to refreshment", for the reaching out that you have displayed.
Yes PurpleHeart, I feel you are reaching out for help in negotiating submerged pain.
Last edited by stargazzer; 07-29-2010 at 11:29 PM..
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If feels like you've been run over by a train. Definitely unexpected. Very strange. Happy as can be and then WHAM! Black hole.
A very, VERY lengthy post...
