Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Our eternal security rests in the finished work of Christ presented to us in the Gospel, not ourselves.
I have no doubt whatsoever that Jesus Christ because of the atoning sacrifice he made for all mankind merited the power to balance the scales of justice on our behalf so we can be saved from the eternal consequences of our sins.
It is my belief that at our final judgment he will take into consideration the kind of lives we lived, the choices we made towards good or towards evil, and that he will reward each of us accordingly.
Within my beliefs there are three kingdoms of glory (heavens), each with many mansions. The kind of lives we lived during our turn on earth will determine in which mansion in which heaven he will assign us. That will determine the starting point for our eternal progression (should we choose to progress) and the distance we will be from the highest mansion in the highest kingdom, which is where he and our Heavenly Father live.
Yes, in my belief we are saved only through the grace of Jesus Christ who made salvation possible. But, the degree of obedience to God's commandments that we consistently choose during mortality will be considered in how much of that grace he bestows upon us on judgment day.
As I see it, if it were otherwise, God would not be fair, He would be a respecter of persons, and He would be disregarding justice.
------ "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14: 2
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven." 2 Corinthians 12: 2
"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory." 1 Corinthians 15: 40-41
So why would God even provide us with commandments, tell us we're imperfect and all of us sinners, tell us about repentance and command us to repent of our sins, tell us about the importance of doing good works, tell us about ordinances such as baptism, and have a final judgment after death if none of that mattered at all, that all we need do is utter some phrase in front of some preacher in some place sometime and then we are free to do whatever we want to do for the rest of our mortal lives with no eternal consequences for our choices to engage in sinful behavior whatsoever, we're SAVED and going to HEAVEN in spite of a lifetime of sin because we uttered that phrase and at the time really meant it too?
With repect for your right to believe whatever you want to believe, to me your doctrine seems to be reckless, careless, and dangerous for those concerned with living a life that is good enough to merit being on the right hand of God, a sheep instead of a goat, wheat instead of tares, among those with oil in their lamps, when we finally get to the judgment bar of Jesus Christ.
True, Christ saves you. But baptism and good works are expected of us, the scriptures are full of such admonitions and his example. My guess is that he'll save us to one of the three kingdoms of glory and one of the many mansions in each of them by taking into consideration what we did with our mortal lives.
Last edited by justamere10; 11-24-2009 at 06:07 PM..
lifesigns64 is right on the $$$ Rev. 3:5 “He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My father, and before His angels.”
lifesigns64 is right on the $$$ Rev. 3:5 “He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My father, and before His angels.”
He who overcomes what? His carnal nature perhaps? Temptations perhaps? Keeps all of God's commandments to the best of his ability and speedily repents when he falls perhaps?
And THUS after enduring to the end of his/her life in righteousness as best he/she can, qualifies for those white garments perhaps?
Please list some of those "rewards" that you believe can be lost during your final judgment.
And why even have a final judgment if in your belief you've already been judged and been irrevocably (regardless of what sins you may commit later) saved to heaven at a certain minute of a certain day sometime during your mortal life?
How about spending eternal life with heavenly Father for one....forever in eternal darkness.
Faith not works my Mormon friend. All who rely on works will not be allowed into heaven. Why not?
Romans 9:32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone."
How about spending eternal life with heavenly Father for one....forever in eternal darkness.
Faith not works my Mormon friend. All who rely on works will not be allowed into heaven. Why not?
Romans 9:32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone."
The King James version reads in context as follows:
"What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;" Romans 9: 30-32
I take that to mean that indeed faith is necessary. Israel at the time referred to was going strictly by the letter of the law with no element of faith, and stumbled because of that.
That does not mean that works are not also important. Those who rely solely on works or solely on faith are quite possibly going to be disappointed on their judgment day.
And actually, you do not have real faith unless you demonstrate that by your works. (Faith without works is dead.) For example, if you have genuine faith in Christ, you will manifest that faith by keeping God's commandments and living the way Christ taught us to live.
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." James 2: 18
...so we can be saved from the eternal consequences of our sins.
...we are saved only through the grace of Jesus Christ who made salvation possible....
...if it were otherwise, God would not be fair, He would be a respecter of persons, and He would be disregarding justice.
The death and resurrection of Christ actually accomplished salvation for us, not just to make it "possible" so that we "can" be saved. The Gospel is an event that happened 2,000 years ago, completely and totally outside of our experience, personal work or assistance. We have no personal work or self merit in it whatsoever. The only thing we can claim credit for are our sins.
At the cross, God took our sins and imputed them to Christ and took Christ's righteousness and imputed it to us. Christ was then crucified for our sins. Our sins were atoned for by Christ and forgiven by God.
Jesus died and was buried. Three days later, God raised Jesus from the dead to demonstrate and testify that Jesus' atonement and death for our sins actually satisfied His justice. He declared us, the sinner, to now be justified and righteous in His sight.
In the courts of justice, God was fair. Jesus paid the full penalty of death for our sins and we were declared free of it's charge and were justified before God. And all because of what Jesus did on the cross for us.
That is the Gospel. That is why the Gospel is called "good news". The news is good!
God commands everyone to repent (change their minds concerning the Gospel) and believe in the good news, it's true.
Mar 1:15 and saying, The time has been fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent and believe in the gospel.
lifesigns64 is right on the $$$ Rev. 3:5 “He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My father, and before His angels.”
We all don't have to agree, but I am glad that you see what I see in the scriptures on this matter . . .
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
