Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why do you not quote Scripture that explains what happens when a "once saved person" looses their Salvation?...and when someone brings them to your attention, you claim that they do not mean what they say?...
Sorry, but this one just stuck out like a sore thumb.
God did not “create” Adam in the Garden of Eden.
Adam was “created” in chapter one of Genesis, but he still didn’t exist as we know existence, until chapter two. That is when he was “formed” from the dust of the ground.
There is a difference… “created” and “formed”
Two separate things. It was the same process with the animals and birds.
Besides that, Adam was “formed” first and then God planted the garden. After that, God placed Adam in the garden.
So, when God “created” Adam, he did not “create” a physical body.
God “formed” a physical body.
God “created”
Then God “formed”
Then God “placed”
And you accuse others of discrediting themselves with their own words?
Bara-create, and Asah-make, are used interchangably in the Bible in reference to the creation of things, including man.
Bara does not always mean to create out of nothing. The universe was created from nothing. God created the first male and female humans out of existing materials.
(Gen. 5:1,2) This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2) He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.
In Gen. 5:1-2 the words for create and made are both used for the creation of man.
In Gen. 1:26 Then God said,''Let Us make man in Our image,''
In Gen 1:27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them,
In Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed-(iitzr) man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
Concerning Eve: Gen. 2:22 And the LORD God fashioned-(banah-built) into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man,...
Adam was just as much created in Gen 1 as he was in Gen 2. Genesis 1 is simply giving an overall view of the creation event. Gen 2 then goes into more detail about the creation of Adam and the woman. In other words, Gen 2 zero's in on man's creation that was previously mentioned in Gen 1.
Man is said to be created, made, formed, and in Eve's case fashioned or built.
As for Adam being created in the Garden as opposed to being created and then placed in the Garden, I was working from memory. What can I say?
Why do you not quote Scripture that explains what happens when a "once saved person" looses their Salvation?...and when someone brings them to your attention, you claim that they do not mean what they say?...
I have already given the explanation to a couple of those verses that people think mean that you can lose your salvation. Just take any verse that you think is saying that you can lose your salvation and google ''Does 'insert verse' mean that you can lose your salvation'' and research all the sites that come up. Set aside your existing opinion and study it objectively, and then take a serious look at the verses I have already supplied that show that you can't lose your salvation.
God is just, and He is also gracious. He has a requirement that must be met in order for you to be saved, but He makes it as easy as possible for you to be saved. Once you are born again into the royal family of God through one simple act of faith in Christ, any disobedience on our part is a family matter, and being a perfect Father, He does not cast us out, no matter how disobedient we are.
Proverbs 3:11-12 My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORD, Or loathe His reproof, 12) For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father, the son in whom he delights.
Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, ''My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by Him; 6) For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He recieves. 7) It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8) But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9) Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? 10) For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, that we may share His holiness. 11) All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. 12) Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, 13) and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.
Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore, and repent. 20) ''Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me. 21) 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.(This is not a salvation passage, but rather it is about responding to divine discipline by naming your sins to God as per 1 John 1:9 and therefore being restored to fellowship, and then obeying the Lord by picking up your cross and following Him.)
2 Timothy 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him; 12) If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;(Rewards) 13) If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself.(The Lord remains faithful to us, in that He does NOT deny us salvation, because He cannot deny Himself.)
Overcomes-->endures=rewards. One of which is reigning with Christ.
You absolutely cannot lose your salvation for any reason whatsoever. God cannot allow that to happen. It is against His nature. Once you have made a decision to believe in Christ for salvation, you belong to Him and He will not let you go. Any disobedience on your part is handled as a family matter. And if you as a believer become faithless, He remains faithful to you, because He cannot deny Himself.
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-26-2009 at 07:45 PM..
Bara-create, and Asah-make, are used interchangably in the Bible in reference to the creation of things, including man.
Bara does not always mean to create out of nothing. The universe was created from nothing. God created the first male and female humans out of existing materials.
(Gen. 5:1,2) This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2) He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.
In Gen. 5:1-2 the words for create and made are both used for the creation of man.
In Gen. 1:26 Then God said,''Let Us make man in Our image,''
In Gen 1:27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them,
In Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed-(iitzr) man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
Concerning Eve: Gen. 2:22 And the LORD God fashioned-(banah-built) into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man,...
Adam was just as much created in Gen 1 as he was in Gen 2. Genesis 1 is simply giving an overall view of the creation event. Gen 2 then goes into more detail about the creation of Adam and the woman. In other words, Gen 2 zero's in on man's creation that was previously mentioned in Gen 1.
Man is said to be created, made, formed, and in Eve's case fashioned or built.
As for Adam being created in the Garden as opposed to being created and then placed in the Garden, I was working from memory. What can I say?
That’s all fine and dandy Mike, but why did you start ranting about “make” or “made”????
As far as I can see, I was comparing the words created and formed.
1 Tim 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
Matt 24:11 ''And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many.''
Mark 13:22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order, if possible, to lead the elect astray.
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid, lest as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds should be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ....
(Etc. etc.)
So much for your opinion, and so much for dictionary definitions.
That's actually quite silly in my opinion for you to come back with those quotes and think you've proven something in your favor Mike. You should know that scriptures written thousands of years ago logically apply equally as well to your own package of beliefs and scriptural interpretations as they do to anyone else's.
2 Timothy 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him; 12) If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;(Rewards) 13) If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself.(The Lord remains faithful to us, in that He does NOT deny us salvation, because He cannot deny Himself.)
So in other words, what your saying here is, I can deny Christ all day, every day, for the rest of my life, and I’ll still go to heaven?
I just won’t get as many rewards as you when we get there?
That’s all fine and dandy Mike, but why did you start ranting about “make” or “made”????
As far as I can see, I was comparing the words created and formed.
Are those two interchangeable?
Ranting. That's your word, not mine. I assume you have at least basic comprehension skills. Therefore, I would have expected you to understand what I posted.
The words 'create', 'made' and 'formed' are all used for the creation of Adam. And I even wrote out the actual verses for comparison purposes. And you did not get it?
Go back and study what I posted, and see if you get it this time.
That's actually quite silly in my opinion for you to come back with those quotes and think you've proven something in your favor Mike. You should know that scriptures written thousands of years ago logically apply equally as well to your own package of beliefs and scriptural interpretations as they do to anyone else's.
Then I will make it more plain to you. I will speak out against any thing that does not line up with what the Bible teaches. That includes the Mormon cult.
Ranting. That's your word, not mine. I assume you have at least basic comprehension skills. Therefore, I would have expected you to understand what I posted.
The words 'create', 'made' and 'formed' are all used for the creation of Adam. And I even wrote out the actual verses for comparison purposes. And you did not get it?
Go back and study what I posted, and see if you get it this time.
Created and formed... are those two words interchangeable in the Bible or not?
Surly you are capable of answering a simple question… aren’t you?
Why do you not quote Scripture that explains what happens when a "once saved person" looses their Salvation?...and when someone brings them to your attention, you claim that they do not mean what they say?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
I have already given the explanation to a couple of those verses that people think mean that you can lose your salvation. Just take any verse that you think is saying that you can lose your salvation and google ''Does 'insert verse' mean that you can lose your salvation'' and research all the sites that come up. Set aside your existing opinion and study it objectively, and then take a serious look at the verses I have already supplied that show that you can't lose your salvation.
God is just, and He is also gracious. He has a requirement that must be met in order for you to be saved, but He makes it as easy as possible for you to be saved. Once you are born again into the royal family of God through one simple act of faith in Christ, any disobedience on our part is a family matter, and being a perfect Father, He does not cast us out, no matter how disobedient we are.
Proverbs 3:11-12 My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORD, Or loathe His reproof, 12) For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father, the son in whom he delights.
Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, ''My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by Him; 6) For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He recieves. 7) It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8) But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9) Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? 10) For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, that we may share His holiness. 11) All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. 12) Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, 13) and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.
Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore, and repent. 20) ''Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me. 21) 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.(This is not a salvation passage, but rather it is about responding to divine discipline by naming your sins to God as per 1 John 1:9 and therefore being restored to fellowship, and then obeying the Lord by picking up your cross and following Him.)
2 Timothy 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him; 12) If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;(Rewards) 13) If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself.(The Lord remains faithful to us, in that He does NOT deny us salvation, because He cannot deny Himself.)
Overcomes-->endures=rewards. One of which is reigning with Christ.
You absolutely cannot lose your salvation for any reason whatsoever. God cannot allow that to happen. It is against His nature. Once you have made a decision to believe in Christ for salvation, you belong to Him and He will not let you go. Any disobedience on your part is handled as a family matter. And if you as a believer become faithless, He remains faithful to you, because He cannot deny Himself.
Mike,
For someone who seems to think they've got it "all wrapped up" when it comes to the word of God, I must say that you are IN GRAVE ERROR when you profess that one cannot lose their salvation...because they *darn* sure can lose their salvation!!!...and you proclaiming otherwise puts you in the catagory of FALSE TEACHERS!...who teach FALSE DOCTRINE!...and I KNOW for a fact, that you do not want to be considered in this way...but your zeal is what will cause your demise, if you are not willing to step back and reconsider what it is you are teaching...and if I were you, I would...step back and reconsider!..."Let those that think they stand, TAKE HEED lest they fall..."...
Hebrews 3:12...which states: "Take heed, *brethren, *lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in *departing from the living God.
*brethren. those who are of the faith...who live for God, in His righteousness...family...like-minded.
*lest there be. Greek (indicative), "lest there be shall," lest there be, as I fear there is; implying that it is not merely a possible contingency, but that there is ground for thinking it will be so.
*departing. -apostatizing. The opposite of "come unto" Him (Hebrews 4:16) God punishes such apostates in kind. He DEPARTS from them - the worst of woes!...to apostatize from Christ is to apostatize from the living God (Hebrews 2:3).
A lot is being said here, in this thread, by you Mike...that is NOT true. Please...stop...for your own sake.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
