Four Problems with the Lose Your Salvation Position (prayer, sinners, Jesus)

[Tolepaintinlady]

I wonder what the criteria is for sinning and losing your salvation? All sins are equal in God's eyes so do you lose your salvation if you lie or does it take something more serious? How can you have any assurance of your salvation? If I was of this denomination, I would be so scarred all of the time that I lost my salvation by some sin that I didn't even realize I had done. The Bible says we are adopted as sons when we are saved. If you adopted a child and he did something bad, would you tell him he's not your son anymore and send him back to the orphanage? No, adoption is non reversable.

[scgraham]

Hebrews 3
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

[scgraham]

Originally Posted by Tolepaintinlady

I wonder what the criteria is for sinning and losing your salvation? All sins are equal in God's eyes so do you lose your salvation if you lie or does it take something more serious? How can you have any assurance of your salvation? If I was of this denomination, I would be so scarred all of the time that I lost my salvation by some sin that I didn't even realize I had done. The Bible says we are adopted as sons when we are saved. If you adopted a child and he did something bad, would you tell him he's not your son anymore and send him back to the orphanage? No, adoption is non reversable.

The prodigal son had to come back home, as he was lost. Had he not come back home, he would have remained lost. Willful sinners have no part with Christ while in their sins; they must turn away from all willful sin.

(2 Timothy 2:19) ...Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

[antredd]

Originally Posted by scgraham

The prodigal son had to come back home, as he was lost. Had he not come back home, he would have remained lost. Willful sinners have no part with Christ while in their sins; they must turn away from all willful sin.

(2 Timothy 2:19) ...Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The key is to CONFESS your sins so that you can stay in fellowship with God--be it will or not.

[Harold Kupp]

Originally Posted by Tolepaintinlady

I wonder what the criteria is for sinning and losing your salvation? All sins are equal in God's eyes so do you lose your salvation if you lie or does it take something more serious? How can you have any assurance of your salvation? If I was of this denomination, I would be so scarred all of the time that I lost my salvation by some sin that I didn't even realize I had done. The Bible says we are adopted as sons when we are saved. If you adopted a child and he did something bad, would you tell him he's not your son anymore and send him back to the orphanage? No, adoption is non reversable.

Actually if you read it carefully the Bible does NOT teach we are adopted even thogh we may have the Holy Spirit.

For example:

First, he said this about those who were born-again:

“THE SPIRIT (HS) Himself bears witness with
our spirit that WE ARE CHILDREN OF GOD.”

Then just seven verses later, Paul said that the “children of God” had fruit of “the Spirit” but were waiting for adoption:

“…but also we ourselves,
HAVING THE FIRST FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT (HS)

even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
WAITNG EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS.”
Romans 8:23 NAS

Please look at the underlined portion of those verses, Paul clearly said that:

1. They were CHILDREN of God,
2. They had the fruit of the Holy Spirit,
3. They were waiting for the adoption as SONS.

At this point, if you accept the Scriptures you are going to gasp and realize that you have not been taught the truth about the adoption of sons.

If you would like to study the process of adoption go here


HK

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by antredd

1. If salvation can be lost, this requires a complete reversal of regeneration. In other words, this means that the person born again must become unborn again. Also, if that person repents, then that person must become born again again. Therefore, can a persoN also be born again, again and again? Where does it end? Is regeneration not permanent?

Are you saying we must repent once and only once? Are you saying that if we do something wrong once we have been "saved," we need feel no remorse or intent to improve in the future?

2. If our salvation can be lost, ETERNAL LIFE cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we are still on Earth, how can we call ETERNAL what can be lost? 1 John 5:13 says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal or to be determined by whetever we manage to keep or lose it. It says we can KNOW that we have eternal life. Thus, how can we know that ouf our salvation isn't secure?

Our salvation is secure based upon our faith in Christ and obedience to His commandments. It is impossible to truly have faith in Him if we are not faithful to Him.

3. Another point to consider is if we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it---fornication, homosexuality, adultery, drunkardness etc. When you think about it, it makes it at least some what dependent on our own merits instead of our dependence on the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us. Also, this is in sync with the Scripture's teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, DEPENDENT ON HIM, NOT US. FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. God wants no one to boast about how they got into heaven,and that is why salvation is offered completely by Him and by Him alone through his Son.

Why do people who insist that we are saved by faith alone ignore the following verses:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

2Timothy: 2-19 Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having the seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

James 2:20-24 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

4. These are just some questions for you to ponder. If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it?

By having nothing more than a dead faith, a faith that is not made perfect by our works of obedience.

How can we keep it?

By enduring to the end.

What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 90% God and 10% us? We earn rewards by our work for God through our faith in Jesus Christ as a result of becoming a new creation/creature in Christ, done in TOTAL dependence on Him, but salvation is not earned; it's not a reward. IT'S A GIFT OF GOD, EARNED ONLY BY CHRIST, NOT US.

It's not a matter of a percentage at all. We are all equally in need of a Savior, and our Savior expects the same thing from all of us: 100% of our love, commitment, and faithfulness.

[DNick]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Our salvation is secure based upon our faith in Christ and obedience to His commandments. It is impossible to truly have faith in Him if we are not faithful to Him.

Why do people who insist that we are saved by faith alone ignore the following verses:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

2Timothy: 2-19 Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having the seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

James 2:20-24 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

By having nothing more than a dead faith, a faith that is not made perfect by our works of obedience.
By enduring to the end.

It's not a matter of a percentage at all. We are all equally in need of a Savior, and our Savior expects the same thing from all of us: 100% of our love, commitment, and faithfulness.

You better be careful Katzpur, that sounds like Catholic Doctrine you're teaching...Faith & Works...

[antredd]

Originally Posted by Harold Kupp

Actually if you read it carefully the Bible does NOT teach we are adopted even thogh we may have the Holy Spirit.

For example:

First, he said this about those who were born-again:

“THE SPIRIT (HS) Himself bears witness with
our spirit that WE ARE CHILDREN OF GOD.”

Then just seven verses later, Paul said that the “children of God” had fruit of “the Spirit” but were waiting for adoption:

“…but also we ourselves,
HAVING THE FIRST FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT (HS)

even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
WAITNG EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS.”
Romans 8:23 NAS

Please look at the underlined portion of those verses, Paul clearly said that:

1. They were CHILDREN of God,
2. They had the fruit of the Holy Spirit,
3. They were waiting for the adoption as SONS.

At this point, if you accept the Scriptures you are going to gasp and realize that you have not been taught the truth about the adoption of sons.

If you would like to study the process of adoption go here


HK

This is what the bible does teach about adoption. John mentions adoption at the beginning of his gospel, where he says:

But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God (John 1:12)

Paul says:
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him,that we may be also glorified together.

I think the confusion of this adoption into God's family is the fact that intially many people think that we would become God's children by regeneration, since the idea of being BORN AGAIN makes us think of children being born into a human family. But the NT never connects adoption with regeneration; adoption is the opposite idea of being born into a family.

Instead the NT teaches that adoption with saving faith, and says that in response to our trusting in Jesus, God has adopted us into his family. Paul says, in Christ Jesus you are all SONS OF GOD, THROUGH FAITH (Gal 3:23-26. And John writes, But to all who received him, who BELIEVED IN HIS NAME, he gave power to become CHILDREN OF GOD John 1:12. These two verses make it clear that adoption follows conversion and is God's response to our faith.

[Carl Berard]

Losing your salvation is quite simple: It's as simple as...

You once came to the alter for salvation and mean it for a while then, you grow cold and never look back again; you no longer again abide in Christ and blaspheme The Holy Spirit. Hence , no relationship and Death to your relationship with God and Christ.

Crucify The Flesh and give no opportunity for the devil...

Repent and sin not!

[nebulous1]

So, technically, by that, you could lose your place in Heaven too. If you sin in Heaven, you could lose your reward. But, if you are resurrected, and on the new earth, what happens then?

Surely you would still have free will after dying, or you'd be a robot.