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Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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I don't think Paul was a false prophet but he (his writings) have been confusing people and discouraging them from being Christians more than any anti Christ ever has. There are some draw out arguments of his that even Bible scholar level Christians can't understand, he contradicts himself even within the same paragraph!
On head coverings in 1 Corinthians 11...
verse 5
every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven
verse 13
Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered?
Either it is or it ain't!!! If it is shameful for a woman to worship without her head covered then why should a weak congregation 'judge for themselves'? Why go on a 3 paragraph ramble instead of giving a one sentence answer that can actually be understood?
He most certainly has! That is why we are in BABYLON (confusion). And you might want to re-read what meerkat2 has been trying to say.
I LOVE reading the Bible. I have the Good News version, which is pretty good. And I keep the KJV around, still. But, there are most definitely some fouled up things going on. It is just that simple. The versions have many contradictions in them and info that just DOESN'T add up.
You already know my stance on hell, I guess. That was an Old English/Germanic word that just meant to cover. It truly is sad what the churches have done to the people. It is ridiculous. It has happened before (Jews) and it has happened again (Christians).
The FRUITS of religion testify to this!
If some of it is wrong then why do you think the rest is true? Why do you follow it at all?
OK...you've made your decision...and some more of what you said comes from that website...You have discovered that God is not the god you want Him to be so now you call it nonsense...You should have gone farther with your studies, and really found out what's going on...Like i did...And i still have Faith...Do you believe in the death penaly for murderers?...or Rapists?...or do you think they can be reformed?...Would you allow them to go free with just a slap on the wrist and a lecture?..Where have you seen human sacrifice in the Bible?...
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I guess you will find out if this is nonsense when you die...
...to be fair..."...For if we wilfully sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins..." (Hebrews 10:26)...she never tasted the, "...good Word of God...(Heb 6:6)..." in the first place...nor has she ever "received the knowledge of the truth."...nor has she ever truly repented...so she has been considered wicked all along...and she is still able to turn from her wickedness...and receive the righteousness of Christ...I believe that she will...but she's going to have to go through some very tough life lessons...and I am praying for you Christygrl...there is still hope for you to find and live in the truth...to find righteousness in Christ Jesus. May God be with you and have mercy upon you...I feel so bad for you......but you are strong, and God created you for a purpose. He's breaking you...trying to wake you up...and what we see as a negative, in God's eyes is a positive...He needs you.
In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 05-28-2010 at 07:55 PM..
If some of it is wrong then why do you think the rest is true? Why do you follow it at all?
Testing the spirits is all I do! I've gotten rather good at it, I think.
I LOVE my enemies. I do good to those that persecute me. I search the scriptures. I test them against what I know about God.
I have said this before, but I will say it again. I believe that MOST of the scriptures are intact. I just believe the message has been completely mangled by those that want to instill fear into people and bring them into wars and what-have-you (getting you to vote for this person or that person, etc). That's the way it goes. From the Inquisitions to the modern wars we have now, people are good at FOLLOWING men who tell them it's GOD'S will they do this or that! The Muslim religious leadership does it, the Christian religious leadership does it, and I'm sure the Jewish religious leadership does it.
Last edited by herefornow; 05-28-2010 at 07:59 PM..
Okay, well, here's what I mean... In 1740, a list of the canonical books compiled in Rome just prior to 200 A.D. was discovered in the Ambrosian Libary in Milan, Italy. Missing from the accepted canon in 200 A.D. were Hebrews, James, 1 Peter and 2 Peter. Only two of John's letters were considered canonical, not three, but we don't know for sure which two. The Apocalypse of Peter and the Wisdom of Solomon, however, were included.
Eusebius of Caesara, one of the most notable Church historians to have ever lived, described (in about 300 A.D.) a canon which included only twenty-seven of the books in today's New Testament. Hebrews, James, and 2 Peter where described as questionable, as were Jude and Revelation. In the fourth century, St. Gregory of Nazianzus continued to reject Revelation and states, "You have all. If there is any any besides these, it is not among the genuine [books]." The canon he set forth was ratified some three centuries later.
The Greek Codex Claromontanus, one of the most significant New Testament manuscripts, contains a list of the canonical books of the fourth century. (The manuscript itself originates in the sixth century, however most scholars believe that the actual list dates back to the Alexandrian Church from two centuries earlier.) That list did not exclude Philippians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians or Hebrews. But guess what? It does include the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas.
Other books that are mentioned by name in today's Bibles cannot be found there at all. One example is Paul's epistle to the Laodiceans. Why was it less authoritative than his other epistles? It's mentioned in Colossians 4:16. Obviously, it was considered authoritative at the time it was written. Paul also wrote an additional epistle to the Ephesians and another to the Corinthians. When did his "apostolic authorship" come into question? Jude, too, wrote another epistle. What reason is there to believe it was so unreliable as to have been intentionally omitted from the today's canon? Or maybe it was just lost.
If we go to the Old Testament, there are even more books that are missing. These were written by "Samuel the seer," "Nathan the prophet," "Shemaiah the prophet" and others. 2 Chronicles mentions many of these by name. Why haven't we gotten rid of 2 Chronicles by now, since it references so many prophets whose work was apparently not the word of God after all?
So, no, I don't believe the Bible is either complete or perfect. I think any legitimate Bible scholar would attest to that. Don't misunderstand me. I believe the Bible to be the word of God and I value it highly. I just recognize that it was transcribed, translated and compiled by human beings, and human beings are fallible. That shouldn't come as much of a surprise to anybody.
Thanks for your response. Clearly I do not view the Bible the same way as you. I guess I'll just agree to disagree.
Testing the spirits is all I do! I've gotten rather good at it, I think.
I LOVE my enemies. I do good to those that persecute me. I search the scriptures. I test them against what I know about God.
I have said this before, but I will say it again. I believe that MOST of the scriptures are intact. I just believe the message has been completely mangled by those that want to instill fear into people and bring them into wars and what-have-you (getting you to vote for this person or that person, etc). That's the way it goes. From the inquisitions to the modern wars we have now.
OK...you've made your decision...and some more of what you said comes from that website...You have discovered that God is not the god you want Him to be so now you call it nonsense...You should have gone farther with your studies, and really found out what's going on...Like i did...And i still have Faith...Do you believe in the death penaly for murderers?...or Rapists?...or do you think they can be reformed?...Would you allow them to go free with just a slap on the wrist and a lecture?..Where have you seen human sacrifice in the Bible?...
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I guess you will find out if this is nonsense when you die...
There are verses in the Old Testament that indicate that the Hebrews thought that God wanted their firstborn sacrificed. And, there are a LOT of strange passages that talk about God wanting this evil or that evil to happen. I know David (I think) was rambling on about ripping babies out of their wombs. And on his deathbed David was STILL talking about killing his enemies!!! He most definitely had not been converted.
The reason why the Jews were so fouled up by the time Jesus showed up and COULD NOT understand who he was, was because of the Old Testament nonsense. There are a LOT of good stories and information about God in the Old Testament, and I enjoy reading it with my Good News Bible. Without the Old Testament we couldn't very well understand the NEW Testament, now, could we? But, if you look CLOSELY at the Old Testament you can see that the Hebrews and then the Jews could not understand LOVE; they did not know how to treat outsiders, and they kept cheating everybody and starting wars. God was ANGRY at them most of the time.
Much of the ranting in the Old Testament is not OF God (take the book of Job, for example). Think of it like this: If I left a diary behind for you, and I wrote in it from childhood until my adult years, maybe you would be able to notice that I became more loving and understood more and more as I grew up. That is how I look at the Bible. Those Hebrews, and then Jews, were growing SPIRITUALLY. Well, they were SUPPOSED to, but the leadership just wanted to start wars and keep everybody under their thumb, so they SCARED them and LIED to them and messed with the scriptures so they would NOT understand JESUS when he showed up! You can see that PROGRESSION if you read from Genesis to Revelation.
The Jews made their proselytes TWOFOLD children of destruction and kept them out of the love and light that God was trying to send them. (God sent them off to destruction in 70 A.D. And how have they been dealt with since?)
Last edited by herefornow; 05-28-2010 at 08:18 PM..
Thanks for your response. Clearly I do not view the Bible the same way as you. I guess I'll just agree to disagree.
I can't decide if you're just being intentionally vague, or what. I mean, you could explain how you view it in light of the facts I presented. We'll still likely disagree in the long run, but I think the points I mentioned have to be considered... unless you just choose to ignore them for the sake of convenience.
Matching them back and forth with each other. Checking out historical documents. Checking dates. Learning Hebrew and Greek. Learning myths and legends of those times. Testing spirits. Just basically studying until I can't hold my head up any longer.
Also, I am trying to figure out WHAT in the Old Testament is attributed to God, but is not OF God. If you read the book of Job, MOST of those chapters are Job's FRIENDS speaking! I think around the LAST chapter God popped in and started telling all Job's friends to step aside. God basically let them ramble for 30-something chapters before he pushed them all to the side and cut in!
Last edited by herefornow; 05-28-2010 at 08:17 PM..
I can't decide if you're just being intentionally vague, or what. I mean, you could explain how you view it in light of the facts I presented. We'll still likely disagree in the long run, but I think the points I mentioned have to be considered... unless you just choose to ignore them for the sake of convenience.
In all honesty, I had to go make dinner and there really isn't any point in debating with someone who believes that legitimate Biblical scholars view the Bible as incomplete and imperfect. It's a waste of my time.
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...but you are strong, and God created you for a purpose. He's breaking you...trying to wake you up...and what we see as a negative, in God's eyes is a positive...He needs you.
