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I think he is saying God expects us to be perfect or we will eternally tortured. But this is all rooted in hell/eternal-torture teaching passed down through the ages... originally it came from the pagan religions that practiced child sacrifice in fire.
Interestingly, a lot of this occurred at the Valley of Hinnom - Gehenna - which Jesus referred to in the Sermon on the Mount, and has been translated as "hell" or "hellfire" in some bibles.
If God wills the salvation of all, why is it not happening? What about the doctrine of election, as Scripture teaches us? And, what about the Omnipotence of God, which is surely equal to His love that wills the salvation of all? As to election, remember that there are mysteries in God and in Scripture which are beyond our reach. If there are apparently conflicting truths which we cannot reconcile, we know that Scripture was not written, like a book of science, to satisfy the intellect. It is the revelation of the hidden wisdom of God, which tests and strengthens faith and submission, and awakens love and childlike teachableness.
If we cannot understand why His power does not work what His will has purposed, we will find that all that God does or does not do is decided by conditions far beyond our human comprehension. It requires a Divine wisdom to grasp and to order God’s ways....
"It is a horrible idea that there is somebody who owns us, who makes us, who supervises us, who knows our thoughts, who can create us sick, then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again..."
This is not a Christian idea, so he is destroying a straw man.
The most critical error is the last part: "who can create us sick, then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again"
I don't know what Hitchens means exactly, but God didn't "create us sick"; nor does anyone go to hell for being sick.
"It is a horrible idea that there is somebody who owns us, who makes us, who supervises us, who knows our thoughts, who can create us sick, then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again..."
This is not a Christian idea, so he is destroying a straw man.
The most critical error is the last part: "who can create us sick, then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again"
I don't know what Hitchens means exactly, but God didn't "create us sick"; nor does anyone go to hell for being sick.
It's not YOUR idea of Christianity but either you haven't been listening to some of your fellow brothers and sisters or you are assuming they are not or possibly a third choice I can't conceive.
Create us sick is referring to the whole sin concept and Adam. We are sick and in need of a savior.
"It is a horrible idea that there is somebody who owns us, who makes us, who supervises us, who knows our thoughts, who can create us sick, then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again..."
This is not a Christian idea, so he is destroying a straw man.
The most critical error is the last part: "who can create us sick, then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again"
I don't know what Hitchens means exactly, but God didn't "create us sick"; nor does anyone go to hell for being sick.
Look at Calvinism's TULIP
T=Totally depraved ie. sick
So at least Calvinists think we are created "sick", but then the Calvinists also think its perfectly just for God to eternally torture people for being exactly as He created them... yeah it's pretty messed up...
It's not YOUR idea of Christianity but either you haven't been listening to some of your fellow brothers and sisters or you are assuming they are not or possibly a third choice I can't conceive.
Okay, but merely calling out the alleged error of one particular sect of Christianity does not necessarily invalidate Christianity as a whole or its central tenets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
Create us sick is referring to the whole sin concept and Adam. We are sick and in need of a savior.
But according to Christianity, God didn't create Adam sick. God created Adam "Good". We are "sick", yes; but God didn't create us that way.
So at least Calvinists think we are created "sick", but then the Calvinists also think its perfectly just for God to eternally torture people for being exactly as He created them... yeah it's pretty messed up...
So maybe he was referring to Calvinism.
Calvinism is a relatively recent phenomenon within Christianity. Pointing out the alleged errors of Calvinism is not even remotely the same thing as condemning Christianity as a whole.
But according to Christianity, God didn't create Adam sick. God created Adam "Good". We are "sick", yes; but God didn't create us that way.
Regardless, that is a fallacy of Christianity as I see it. God creates Adam, and the very first opportunity, he sins.
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