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From the Core of the Center of all things exists a pure, passionate attraction that results in the holy Conjugal Uniting of Being which is the Source of all life-reproduction.
Deity begets, and from the substance of that Divine Birthing, all materiality is created. This is why Paul called Jesus, "the first-born of all creation," for all creation derives from His birth, and as the first-born all creation is His inheritance.
This truth is at the heart of why creation is dependent upon the manifestation (unveiling/uncovering) of the sons of God for its deliverance from decay, for it is specifically the Spirit-Substance of God's sons from which God created all things. Therefore, as go the sons so goes all creation, according to and by "the liberty of the glory of the children of God."
How can God's motive be Goodness in YOUR view when you actually think He was wrathful and cursed His NEWLY CREATED and ignorant of Good and Evil creatures and their descendants in perpetuity over a single act of disobedience? That implies He took offense because His actual motive is CONTROL and He demands obedience OR ELSE! How do you reconcile that TYRANNICAL motivation with Goodness or Love???
"Wrathful" and "cursed" is an example of our limited human language trying to describe what took place. Sin, being by definition, opposition to the nature of God, brings death. God's nature being Life itself, opposition to it brings death. No act of God was required in bringing death to Adam and his posterity - that's just what happens when you act in opposition to the nature of God.
A "single act of disobedience" is a single act of opposition to the will and nature of God. Once you have opposed God, you are in opposition to Him. How else could it be? There is no evil with God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
How did you discern that his disagreements and alternative interpretations of scripture were "insincere"??? Your self-affirming judgments of others are NOT necessarily true and you would never be so certain unless, of course, you yourself are like that.
It wasn't disagreements or alternative interpretations, nor did it have anything to do with Scripture. In making the false claim that the early Church taught universalism, he was selectively quoting Church Fathers. The full context of the quotes was provided to him, but he didn't care as he'd rather follow his dishonest and discredited mentors such as J.W. Hanson than to assent to the Truth.
If he wants to argue for Universalism, by all means he has the right; but to try to use Irenaeus would be laughable if he weren't actually serious.
Early Church fathers regarding universal restoration
Universal Restoration vs Eternal Torment (hell) introduction
The Biggest Hole in Hell: Aion, Ages and Eternity
Can you be saved after you die?
So let’s talk a little bit about the word “hell”
Scriptures That Support Universal Restoration
Scriptures In Revelation That Support Universal Restoration
So why did Jesus die if not to save us from hell?
The Early Church Fathers on Universal Restoration (You are here)
Universal Restoration vs Eternal Torment Conclusion
"He pre-destined us to be adopted by Himself as sons through Jesus Christ--such being His gracious will and pleasure--to the praise of the splendour of His grace with which He has enriched us in the beloved One. It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him." ~R.F. Weymouth
Of course not, but I can appreciate any kind of kindness and sincerity, it doesn't matter the source. Here we go again. You want to turn a nice thread into another mud-slinging contest? I remember you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth
I addressed pros and cons in my post above. What else is there to say about it? Everyone here wants to discuss Universalism too, since this is a discussion board.
Jimmiej you've been here long enough to know how this works.
It just seems like you don’t want opposing thoughts here.
"Wrathful" and "cursed" is an example of our limited human language trying to describe what took place. Sin, being by definition, opposition to the nature of God, brings death. God's nature being Life itself, opposition to it brings death. No act of God was required in bringing death to Adam and his posterity - that's just what happens when you act in opposition to the nature of God.
A "single act of disobedience" is a single act of opposition to the will and nature of God. Once you have opposed God, you are in opposition to Him. How else could it be? There is no evil with God.
It wasn't disagreements or alternative interpretations, nor did it have anything to do with Scripture. In making the false claim that the early Church taught universalism, he was selectively quoting Church Fathers. The full context of the quotes was provided to him, but he didn't care as he'd rather follow his dishonest and discredited mentors such as J.W. Hanson than to assent to the Truth.
If he wants to argue for Universalism, by all means he has the right; but to try to use Irenaeus would be laughable if he weren't actually serious.
You are sadly misguided by your unwarranted belief in the authority of the Catholic Church about things that happened two millennia ago clouded by the mists of time and unverifiable authorships, etc. They are NOT the ultimate authority!!! No human is! There is significant disagreement about the things they profess though you seem to think they are the source of absolute truth. It will not be sufficient to say you were misled when you are before God, Mike.
What you are willing to accept reflects the actual status of your heart and soul. You believe in a God who is not remotely like the God Jesus revealed and Divinely demonstrated on the Cross. That means your soul resonates with a very different God from the God of Jesus Christ. That should worry you but it does not seem to. It is as if you actually prefer your tyrannical God to the "wimpy" agape loving and forgiving God of Jesus.
Jesus Christ is the conquering Lord of all. Within His mighty grasp death and hell is no more!
"Don’t yield to fear. I am the Beginning and I am the End, the Living One! I was dead, but now look—I am alive forever and ever. And I hold the keys that unlock death and the unseen world." ~TPT
What you are willing to accept reflects the actual status of your heart and soul. You believe in a God who is not remotely like the God Jesus revealed and Divinely demonstrated on the Cross. That means your soul resonates with a very different God from the God of Jesus Christ. That should worry you but it does not seem to. It is as if you actually prefer your tyrannical God to the "wimpy" agape loving and forgiving God of Jesus.
Jesus IS God. There is nothing "wimpy" about what He did for us. There is also nothing tyrannical about God.
I need God's love and forgiveness as much as anyone. Why wouldn't I want that?
Do you consider yourself to be my judge? Because you are assuming that role, and I find it quite incredible considering all of the things you espouse.
Jesus IS God. There is nothing "wimpy" about what He did for us. There is also nothing tyrannical about God.
I need God's love and forgiveness as much as anyone. Why wouldn't I want that?
Do you consider yourself to be my judge? Because you are assuming that role, and I find it quite incredible considering all of the things you espouse.
You already have His love and forgiveness. Catholics think you need to beg for it.
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