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According to Peter, who walked with Jesus, God planned it all along.
“Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified.” Acts 2:23
I get the Plan OK? God knew they would kill him and that is part of the plan but did God get less angry after the cross? Is His anger appeased now? Jesus died for us and our sins, not to appease God because He needed a sacrifice.
I get the Plan OK? God knew they would kill him and that is part of the plan but did God get less angry after the cross? Is His anger appeased now? Jesus died for us and our sins, not to appease God because He needed a sacrifice.
God planned to kill Him, to appease His own wrath.
Isaiah 53
10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief;
when his soul makes an offering for guilt.
The idea of punishment, per se, as ANY form of justice is purely the result of human impotence and not remotely something our Omnipotent Father God would ever need to use. The idea of everlasting or unending punishment is absolutely preposterous as any kind of justice. You have a very sick concept of justice, brother.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. I believe without a shadow of doubt that God is perfecting us in love , this being so, the very thought of everlasting punishment being just for anyone, is something that those who are being perfected in love could never could never entertain the thought of it.
Jer 17:9, The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer 17:10, I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. I believe without a shadow of doubt that God is perfecting us in love , this being so, the very thought of everlasting punishment being just for anyone, is something that those who are being perfected in love could never could never entertain the thought of it.
According to Peter, who walked with Jesus, God planned it all along.
“Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified.” Acts 2:23
It doesn't take an omniscient God to know what our savage, brutal ancestors would do to Jesus preaching an agape loving and forgiving God to them when they believed completely in a wrathful and vengeful War God who needed to be appeased every year by blood sacrifices. KNOWING what our ancestors would do to Jesus does not mean God demanded it to appease Him for anything. It just means He allowed it because He wanted to get the point across that He IS agape loving and forgiving even of their most brutal and savage treatment of His Son (and Him).
They should have seen the inconsistency in believing He was wrathful about single disobedience in Eden over fruit no less, but they didn't. Their fear of God and conditioning to a wrathful War God during the schoolmaster stage under Moses was too strong (2nd Corinthians 3:14-17), so they interpreted it in the only other way that made sense to their primitive belief in His wrath and vengeance. That none of the religious leaders since and up to today managed to see it is a testament to our human perversity.
It should be a source of enormous shame to Christian theologians everywhere that the enormous incongruity of their irrational and absurd rationale with the Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness revealed by God Himself as Jesus on the Cross has been completely missed or ignored for millennia!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
God planned to kill Him, to appease His own wrath.
Isaiah 53
10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief;
when his soul makes an offering for guilt.
That you not only believe this but defend it as proof of your love and faith in God reveals a very dark heart, IMO.
You are also calling Jesus a speaker of that which is preposterous. For He spoke of everlasting punishment in Matthew 25:41,46; Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50.
No, those who spoke for Jesus did. Jesus spoke of agape love and forgiveness and unambiguously demonstrated it under lifeitand death circumstances. Ignorant primitive humans in their belief in a wrathful and vengeful War God interpreted a preposterous everlasting punishment that only primitive savages should ever be able to believe. I suspect God and Jesus are very disappointed in us.
I believe God never intended sacrifices to begin with. Why would He need something like that? However, many tribes and civilizations had sacrifices incorporated into their belief systems, they witnessed a brutal nature of eat or be eaten so assumed whoever God was, must be a pretty angry one for creating such a brutal environment of death. What I am getting at is Christ came to Earth to save mankind from sin and death by showing the true nature of God. God does not need appeasing like many falsely teach. It may take a while to unincorporate your belief system about what a sacrifice is.
I fear that it will be long in coming, Zero. The conditioning to a wrathful and vengeful God is strong as is the conditioning that we are somehow evil and deserving of eternal Hell and damnation. It is a conundrum that seems intractable in the current religious dogma.
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