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Salvation can only come to a person when they believe that Jesus died for their sins, taking their place and taking the penalty of God's just punishment for the sins that they have committed.
We must keep this in memory or else we are not saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Nonsense. Jesus DID make our human sins irrelevant to our relationship with God because God permanently established that relationship by incarnating as Jesus. There was no penalty due and no punishment required except by our wrathful and vengeful savage ancestors who scourged and crucified Jesus. We ARE saved by what Jesus accomplished and it is finished. We have nothing to do with our salvation.
Our concern should be with our sanctification and justification by building on the foundation of agape love and forgiveness that Jesus laid for us. We do that by the love of God and each other every day and repenting when we fail. All the angst and concern over the Bad News "precepts and doctrines of men" that divide us and create discord is a distraction from the Good News Jesus actually represents.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 01-13-2022 at 11:14 AM..
Salvation can only come to a person when they believe that Jesus died for their sins, taking their place and taking the penalty of God's just punishment for the sins that they have committed.
We must keep this in memory or else we are not saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Jesus DID make our human sins irrelevant to our relationship with God because God permanently established that relationship by incarnating as Jesus. There was no penalty due and no punishment required except by our wrathful and vengeful savage ancestors who scourged and crucified Jesus. We ARE saved by what Jesus accomplished and it is finished.
It is indeed finished; but God does indeed have wrath and justice against sin.
Quote:
We have nothing to do with our salvation.
See John 1:12, Romans 10:9-13.
Quote:
Our concern should be with our sanctification and justification by building on the foundation of agape love and forgiveness that Jesus laid for us. We do that by the love of God and each other every day and repenting when we fail. All the angst and concern over the Bad News "precepts and doctrines of men" that divide us and create discord is a distraction from the Good News Jesus actually represents.
Our concern ought indeed to be our justification; which indeed indicates that we may not be justified when we stand before the Lord at His judgment seat.
Nonsense. Jesus DID make our human sins irrelevant to our relationship with God because God permanently established that relationship by incarnating as Jesus. There was no penalty due and no punishment required except by our wrathful and vengeful savage ancestors who scourged and crucified Jesus. We ARE saved by what Jesus accomplished and it is finished. We have nothing to do with our salvation.
Our concern should be with our sanctification and justification by building on the foundation of agape love and forgiveness that Jesus laid for us. We do that by the love of God and each other every day and repenting when we fail. All the angst and concern over the Bad News "precepts and doctrines of men" that divide us and create discord is a distraction from the Good News Jesus actually represents.
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
See 1 Corinthians 1:18,21.
It is indeed finished, but God does indeed have wrath and justice against sin.
See John 1:12, Romans 10:9-13.
Our concern ought indeed to be our justification; which indeed indicates that we may not be justified when we stand before the Lord at His judgment seat.
As long as we act out of agape love of God and each other every day and repent when we fail, we can NOT sin no matter what nonsense "precepts and doctrines of men" you THINK defines sin. But that is not as easy as it sounds and most of us will need to take advantage of repentance often.
At least we will not waste our time and effort worrying about some set of prohibitions dreamed up by our ignorant ancient and savage ancestors out of their primitive fear of God and damnation. They needed specific prohibitions to tame their savagery. I hope most of us today do not!
I do not think the Holy Spirit is a separate person, I believe He is the very essence of God Himself as you state. I believe in one God and one Spirit. That Spirit became flesh in order to be ALL in ALL (future event) and Jesus is Lord, God in the flesh.
But do you even get what I was saying? Did you even listen? Have I provoked you so that you would go back a reread everything as if to see it, if it exists?
No, I have not.
Humanity needs to understand that good and evil, the concept of them, is what is holding them back. The lesson is about overcoming the concept, not washing away the sins.
When the Spirit was first breathed upon Adam, what was actually going on? Adam was new. God was giving him a point of view.
When they partook of the fruit of the tree, what was actually going on? They were entering into a self-referential consciousness. They were evaluating things, now, from the perspective of whether they were good for them as observers, or not. That is what the knowledge of right and wrong is. And the Spirit left them.
But the Spirit was the giver of life. Yeah, and God wanted man to be more than a being that didn't die. He wanted man to truly live. That state wouldn't have been reached it they had been able to simply eat from the tree of life. This wicked assessment of the place of sin by the Church is wrong. The Spirit did not come to merely sustain you forever, without challenging you.
So many of you cannot understand the place of fire, but that is the place of fire. I'm trying to tell you that facing God changes you. It changes your state of mind. It tells you something about the place of hope, that it is right to never give up. It tells you that a refusal to hate in the face of rejection is the right choice, not the choice of those who will fail before the scythe of evolution. This is the battle for your consciousness, and God will win it.
The first shall be last, and the last shall be first.
Oh, and I do not deny Christ. It was the Spirit who raised Him from the dead. It was the Spirit who did all the miracles. It was the Spirit who gave Him all the words. Who is it who denies Christ?
Last edited by Am I a Prophet; 01-14-2022 at 05:01 AM..
Reason: the writing process
But do you even get what I was saying? Did you even listen? Have I provoked you so that you would go back a reread everything as if to see it, if it exists?
No, I have not.
Humanity needs to understand that good and evil, the concept of them, is what is holding them back. The lesson is about overcoming the concept, not washing away the sins.
When the Spirit was first breathed upon Adam, what was actually going on? Adam was new. God was giving him a point of view.
When they partook of the fruit of the tree, what was actually going on? They were entering into a self-referential consciousness. They were evaluating things, now, from the perspective of whether they were good for them as observers, or not. That is what the knowledge of right and wrong is. And the Spirit left them.
But the Spirit was the giver of life. Yeah, and God wanted man to be more than a being that didn't die. He wanted man to truly live. That state wouldn't have been reached it they had been able to simply eat from the tree of life. This wicked assessment of the place of sin by the Church is wrong. The Spirit did not come to merely sustain you forever, without challenging you.
So many of you cannot understand the place of fire, but that is the place of fire. I'm trying to tell you that facing God changes you. It changes your state of mind. It tells you something about the place of hope, that it is right to never give up. It tells you that a refusal to hate in the face of rejection is the right choice, not the choice of those who will fail before the scythe of evolution. This is the battle for your consciousness, and God will win it.
The first shall be last, and the last shall be first.
Oh, and I do not deny Christ. It was the Spirit who raised Him from the dead. It was the Spirit who did all the miracles. It was the Spirit who gave Him all the words. Who is it who denies Christ?
It is not what we believe but who we are as people that matters. Are we good Samaritans or not? Remember, a lot of people profess Christ and will still be cast away. Even demons believe.
It is not what we believe but who we are as people that matters. Are we good Samaritans or not? Remember, a lot of people profess Christ and will still be cast away. Even demons believe.
That sounds like a works-based salvation. Is that what you are saying?
It is not what we believe but who we are as people that matters. Are we good Samaritans or not? Remember, a lot of people profess Christ and will still be cast away. Even demons believe.
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
That sounds like works-based salvation. Is that what you are saying?
No, Jimmie. It is character-based and has nothing to do with our salvation. It has to do with what kind of Spirit we have become. That will determine our ultimate fate. Our salvation was taken care of by Jesus and it is finished. We have nothing to do with it.
It is a precept and doctrine of the Lord that "sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4).
Love is the fulfillment of it. You have to get out of your head that sins consequence is hell or whatever you want to call it, it is not even falling short of his standard, the consequence of sin is slavery and frustration( for those who don't want to sin, read Romans 7). God purposed our lives to be lived out in his likeness. Jesus is the exact representation of his likeness and to that likeness, God will at the very least restore us back to that likeness, in his time and no doubt restore all of mankind back to that likeness.
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