Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jesus Christ paid for their sins, not them, nor us!
Can you elaborate on this a little. I don't know what you mean by "not them, nor us". Does any of this apply to the Gentiles? Are they not also included in the new covenant? And if so, how is their unbelief handled differently than Israels? How does Rom 11:32 play into all this?
I certainly do believe it! And if you notice He is the justifier of one who "BELIEVETH."
Our sins committed in faith are covered by the Blood of the Lamb by and in FAITH!
As Paul told us, this is not a license to sin, it does not give us the liberty to do whatever we want in sin!
If you are indeed a new man in Christ you will hate sin, as that is what crucified our Christ that we may find forgiveness.
The unrighteous man has no guilt over sin, and that is the difference in us and them!
The unrighteous will continue on the path of sin, the righteous mans steps are ordered by the Lord and even though we do fail at times, we are sorry for our sins, repent of that sin and ask forgiveness.
Thereby we are covered in His Blood for our sin by faith!
Yes, Christ justifies the believer too (Rom 3:26). Are you saying those justified in Rom 4:5 are actually "ungodly" believers that have received the Holy Spirit by faith?
Can you elaborate on this a little. I don't know what you mean by "not them, nor us". Does any of this apply to the Gentiles? Are they not also included in the new covenant? And if so, how is their unbelief handled differently than Israels? How does Rom 11:32 play into all this?
Not them (Jews) nor us (Gentiles). Let me try to go back and explain.
The New Covenant began at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended on man to dwell in the hearts of men as promised by Christ. Which was not previously possible for the sin debt of man had not yet been paid.
Paul tells us that the Gentiles have been grafted in (the New Covenant) with the Jews.
Paul also tells us there is no difference in the Jew and the Gentile, they are both found in unbelief.
Rom. 11:32
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."
Paul had been discussing the Jews and the Gentiles. Just back up in chp. 11 and see!
The "mercy for all" is concerning how God called Israel and they failed, so He turned to the Gentile Church to complete the spreading of the Gospel to the world.
It is through this, God's plan for mankind to be saved that the mercy of the Gospel will be spread over the world, that mercy is given to all! Not that all will be saved, that is nowhere in the context!
I certainly do believe it! And if you notice He is the justifier of one who "BELIEVETH."
Can you show me in the NT where the "ungodly" are called believers. The epistle to the Romans is addressed to those called "saints", Rom 1:7. Are they to be called ungodly saints? Jude calls the "ungodly" as being the deniers of Jesus (Jude 1:4). Why would Jude call them unbelievers if they are actually ungodly saints who believe?
Not them (Jews) nor us (Gentiles). Let me try to go back and explain.
The New Covenant began at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended on man to dwell in the hearts of men as promised by Christ. Which was not previously possible for the sin debt of man had not yet been paid.
Paul tells us that the Gentiles have been grafted in (the New Covenant) with the Jews.
Paul also tells us there is no difference in the Jew and the Gentile, they are both found in unbelief.
Rom. 11:32
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."
Paul had been discussing the Jews and the Gentiles. Just back up in chp. 11 and see!
The "mercy for all" is concerning how God called Israel and they failed, so He turned to the Gentile Church to complete the spreading of the Gospel to the world.
It is through this, God's plan for mankind to be saved that the mercy of the Gospel will be spread over the world, that mercy is given to all! Not that all will be saved, that is nowhere in the context!
I appreciate your effort here. But your conclusion is not scriptural. The mercy being extended is to both parties due to the other parties unbelief. Not because they believed the Gospel. But rather because the other party did not believe the Gospel (Rom 11:30-31).
Can you show me in the NT where the "ungodly" are called believers. The epistle to the Romans is addressed to those called "saints", Rom 1:7. Are they to be called ungodly saints? Jude calls the "ungodly" as being the deniers of Jesus (Jude 1:4). Why would Jude call them unbelievers if they are actually ungodly saints who believe?
Jude 4
"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
Back up a vs. and you will see that Jude is speaking of "earnestly contending for the faith."
He is warning them of false teachers who have entered the Church in vs 4.
"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
Back up a vs. and you will see that Jude is speaking of "earnestly contending for the faith."
He is warning them of false teachers who have entered the Church in vs 4.
So I think you have misunderstood something!
So who are the ungodly men? Are they not those who deny Christ? What am I misunderstanding here?
I'm also waiting on the forgiveness questions. Take your time.
Paul didn't divide the world into Israel, Gentiles and Jews! Why do you?
He divided in into Jews and Gentiles.
Later he tells us the Jews and Gentiles together in the New Covenant are Israel!
You said theirs (the question concerning Israel (Rom 11:26) , but not them (Jews) or us (Gentiles). Theirs, them and us. Three groups, right?
Paul continues to use this description of Jew, Isreal and Gentile throughout his epistles. Why do so if only two groups exist? Paul uses the term Jew (or Jews) about 28 times. Israel about 19 times and gentile or gentiles about 50 times. Is Paul lying, or is it your understanding that's wrong?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
