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Exactly! Satan owned the soul of man by legal means when he deceived Adam and Eve. even though man who was saved could not enter heaven because of that. But when Jesus died on the Cross for the sins of man and confirmed it through His resurrection, man was brought back to relationship with God, no longer owned by Satan.
aarg, first you say hell is paradise and also heaven, both of which is a prison house. now you say man could not enter heaven/paradise because Jesus did not yet die on the cross. Yet you maintain those dead people were in paradise/heaven before Jesus died on the cross.
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Jesus took from Satan legal ownership of the soul of man and gave that ownership back to God as the Second Adam that Paul tells us about. Christ undid what Adam had done, and He did it for us, because he loved us. The agape love that Mystic speaks of all the time!
You mouth the words charlie but you don't believe Christ undid what Adam had done because you don't believe in the salvation of the whole world and Adams sin is world wide.
"For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water....For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
Disobedient = apeitheō =
Not to allow to be persuaded.
To refuse belief and obedience.
None compliance.
Dead = nekros =
One that has breathed his last / lifeless.
Deceased / departed.
Destitute of life/ without life.
Live = zaō =
To live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead)
amen rose, what charlie is missing is that, that scripture is pertaining to the disobedient.
aarg, first you say hell is paradise and also heaven, both of which is a prison house. now you say man could not enter heaven/paradise because Jesus did not yet die on the cross. Yet you maintain those dead people were in paradise/heaven before Jesus died on the cross.
You mouth the words charlie but you don't believe Christ undid what Adam had done because you don't believe in the salvation of the whole world and Adams sin is world wide.
LOL, what can I say pneuma, you're not going to consider anything I say.
I've lost with you before I even begin! Why should I even try?
For the benefit of others I went as far as I did. For you, a waste of my time!
Christ went down to Paradise, which is referred to as part of Hell at that time. It no longer exists as it has no more purpose now that the saved have been delivered.
Notice that you say paradise no longer exists as it no longer has a purpose.
I pointed out to you that Paul says that paradise is in the 3rd heaven and not in hell beneath.
then you make this statement.
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Well, do you think that maybe when Paradise was emptied in hell (not the burning side) the saints took Paradise with them to heaven?
Charlie if paradise no longer exists because it has o more purpose why would the saints take it with them?
and then you say
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Paradise is a synonym for "heaven."
can you not see how twisted your belief system is? You simply start to make crap up when confronted with the truth just as you did when I pointed out to you Paul said paradise was in the 3rd heaven.
LOL, what can I say pneuma, you're not going to consider anything I say.
I've lost with you before I even begin! Why should I even try?
For the benefit of others I went as far as I did. For you, a waste of my time!
Charlie the problem you have with me is that I actually do consider everything you say and then point out the errors of what you said. If I did not consider what you said charlie I could not point out where you went into error.
And I agree you did it for the benefit of others Charlie, just not in the way you think.
Charlie the problem you have with me is that I actually do consider everything you say and then point out the errors of what you said. If I did not consider what you said charlie I could not point out where you went into error.
And I agree you did it for the benefit of others Charlie, just not in the way you think.
I could tell you that Paradise in heaven didn't exist for man UNTIL Christ paid the sin debt, or man wouldn't have been in the place where Lazarus was, next to Hell.
I could tell you that Paul mentions Paradise being in heaven after the fact of Christ delivering man from Paradise/Hell in the Old Testament.
But here's the point, it doesn't matter what I say, you will come back with something, anything you can find to combat what is say! Because Charlie can't be right about anything.
I could tell you that Paradise in heaven didn't exist for man UNTIL Christ paid the sin debt, or man wouldn't have been in the place where Lazarus was, next to Hell.
.
you did try to tell everyone that charlie but as I showed it was just something you made up in your own head and trying to pass it off a scriptural.
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I could tell you that Paul mentions Paradise being in heaven after the fact of Christ delivering man from Paradise/Hell in the Old Testament.
Again you did try to tell us this charlie but again have no scripture to back it up. Just how many paradises do you believe there are?
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But here's the point, it doesn't matter what I say, you will come back with something, anything you can find to combat what is say! Because Charlie can't be right about anything
Well I would not say you cant be right about anything charlie, but when you tell others the salvation of the whole world cannot be attained and eternal torment is the good news you will always be wrong and I will be here to point out those errors.
I seriously doubt anyone holds to your view that paradise was in hell before Christ died and the saints took that prison house to heaven only afterwards.
You should have just taken the correction charlie when it was given, but instead you compounded your error with more error.
you did try to tell everyone that charlie but as I showed it was just something you made up in your own head and trying to pass it off a scriptural.
Again you did try to tell us this charlie but again have no scripture to back it up. Just how many paradises do you believe there are?
Well I would not say you cant be right about anything charlie, but when you tell others the salvation of the whole world cannot be attained and eternal torment is the good news you will always be wrong and I will be here to point out those errors.
I seriously doubt anyone holds to your view that paradise was in hell before Christ died and the saints took that prison house to heaven only afterwards.
You should have just taken the correction charlie when it was given, but instead you compounded your error with more error.
Got to keep coming back to something you can show anyone in scripture, UR!
Show us in scripture where man gets out of hell and we will believe you!
Only a tree-hugger will believe you without scripture!
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