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You are both dancing around the same shortness of understanding, IMO, one on one side and the other from the other side. Finn sees "faith" as an intellectual position; "belief," when it is much more than that, it is a commitment to a Way taught and demonstrated by Jesus. bbyrd66 sees the evidence of that commitment in works as a necessary part of that commitment, when it is just the evidence of it.
No, I do not see faith as an 'intellectual position', but thanks for sharing your IMO.
Like I have said countless times here: Faith gives birth to God honoring works.
You took an unfortunate path of misrepresenting everything I said, so I must assume you are in the same camp with the rest of the people who resort that that tactic.
you may assume whatever you like--i am just suggesting that people should listen to Christ if they want salvation. If i have misrepresented you in some way, then please show how. If i restated something incorrectly, it was to show that i heard it incorrectly, and beg correction--but at the moment, you suggest that Christ may be discounted when He discourses about salvation, are you not?
Our chief disagreement is apparently whether or not "fulfills the law" = salvation or not, and we got away from that when you started asking what "is" is? How is salvation ignored in this model?
For the record, I believe what Christ said 100%, and you can claim otherwise all day long, but it won't change the fact.
well, Christ said Loving your neighbor equals salvation, but i can quote you disagreeing. So i do not want to claim something that is not true, nor does it seem that i need to.
I just gave you the three points where you did it.
Don't worry about it, I am used to it here, and it's good that you did it, and repeated it, because I will know to not waste my time going forward.
i suggest that all you are doing is wasting time, if you believe you can justify "ya, that's a good idea, but has nothing to do with salvation." Do you think you can separate "fulfills the law" with "salvation," and if so, how?
i suggest that all you are doing is wasting time, if you believe you can justify "ya, that's a good idea, but has nothing to do with salvation." Do you think you can separate "fulfills the law" with "salvation," and if so, how?
I don't want to repeat what I already said. Read #1298 and #1305, and what I said to Nate about faith giving birth to God honoring works.
I don't want to repeat what I already said. Read #1298 and #1305, and what I said to Nate about faith giving birth to God honoring works.
Capish?
sure. the problem is, i don't see anywhere God, through Christ or otherwise, said anything about this faith giving birth to God honoring works. Scripture says "a good deed covers many sins," without that qualification. Christ certainly did not seem to intimate that the Good Samaritan had had any conversion experience, yet tells us to "go, and do likewise." So i have to say that Christ seems to be suggesting exactly what Nate is saying that He does not, at least from my perspective.
i would take Christ's Word for it, and assume that "fulfills the law" = "all the salvation you will ever need."
No, I do not see faith as an 'intellectual position', but thanks for sharing your IMO.
Like I have said countless times here: Faith gives birth to God honoring works.
Then, may I suggest that you specify that faith is more than an intellectual position, as there are some here who see it as such and say that "Lordship Salvation" is in error.
yes, and wadr i am disagreeing with you, as it seems to me that Christ specifically used that wording to indicate that that is exactly what it does, is save you. Either Love fulfills the law, or it does not; and you either believe that, or you don't. Are you suggesting, with the rest of that there, that i can reconcile Christ with Paul?
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