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The "kingdom of heaven" (or "kingdom of God") is wherever the REIGN or DOMINION of God (who is in heaven) is manifested.
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Originally Posted by hd4me
The kingdom of heaven aka the kingdom of God...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
It is the place that manifests in us as we call upon it. The thing is it will never manifest in us until we have found where it us.
Jesus told us to seek it, he said it is within us, he said for us to call upon it for it to come.
I am NOT disagreeing that the two are probably synonymous, but be prepared for this argument:
If the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are the same thing and the Kingdom Of God is within us then how can this be true?
"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." (Matt. 11:12 KJV) Violent people can beat it out of us?
I am NOT disagreeing that the two are probably synonymous, but be prepared for this argument:
If the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are the same thing and the Kingdom Of God is within us then how can this be true?
"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." (Matt. 11:12 KJV) Violent people can beat it out of us?
It is clear from the violence perpetrated on Christ who perfectly manifested the kingdom of God within His Spirit that this will be true. If we are as Christ is and as the early Christians were who were subjected to violence and sacrifice to beasts, etc. . . . the violent will take us by force.
It is clear from the violence perpetrated on Christ who perfectly manifested the kingdom of God within His Spirit that this will be true. If we are as Christ is and as the early Christians were who were subjected to violence and sacrifice to beasts, etc. . . . the violent will take us by force.
Another verse with the same word translated as take away in Matt 11:12 is Matt 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away G726 that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Same idea, I think, as Matt 11:12. It's about the kingdom within being destroyed by the "wicked one" ... and that wicked one is whatever it is within ourselves or others that is at odds with the kingdom/rule of God/love in our hearts. It's whatever would steal our peace and joy.
So, is this right? The old testament speaks of the kingdom of heaven as davids reign. The disciples also believed this, but Jesus himself thought it was a place in our hearts? And what about John the Baptist, did he believe it was a place in our hearts or the Davids reign?
So, is this right? The old testament speaks of the kingdom of heaven as davids reign. The disciples also believed this, but Jesus himself thought it was a place in our hearts? And what about John the Baptist, did he believe it was a place in our hearts or the Davids reign?
Thanks
Daniel in chapter 2 likens kingdoms to governments. The huge political statue comes crashing down when the kingdom stone which grows to be a great mountain hits the fragile feet of the statue - Daniel 2 v 44
As the kingdom of England, or the kingdom of Jordan, have a king [ or queen ] as head of those governments, Jesus is king or head of God's kingdom government of a thousand years.- 1st Cor. 15 v 24.
Where did Jesus teach the kingdom was a place in OUR hearts? At Luke 17 vs 20,21 Jesus is talking to the Pharisees.
Was the kingdom in the hearts of the Pharisees ?______ Please notice it is Not until verse 22 that Jesus talks to his disciples.
To make sure Jesus' disciples understood that the kingdom would Not be immediate or instantly coming Jesus gave the illustration to his disciples at Luke 19 vs 11-15. Jesus, as the nobleman, would travel to a far country [heaven ] before Jesus would return at the ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32 in kingdom glory.
So, is this right? The old testament speaks of the kingdom of heaven as davids reign. The disciples also believed this, but Jesus himself thought it was a place in our hearts? And what about John the Baptist, did he believe it was a place in our hearts or the Davids reign?
Thanks
You are trying to build too much out of a situation that existed for a time. Jesus never denied he would come in His Kingdom and that will be a literal one. He was telling the Jews that at that time (and now) the kingdom is within them. They will be part of that physical kingdom when Christ returns to set it up. It is in their hearts and Davids reign. There will be a physical kingdom once again.
You are trying to build too much out of a situation that existed for a time. Jesus never denied he would come in His Kingdom and that will be a literal one. He was telling the Jews that at that time (and now) the kingdom is within them. They will be part of that physical kingdom when Christ returns to set it up. It is in their hearts and Davids reign. There will be a physical kingdom once again.
How could it be in David's reign when King David is still asleep in the grave according to Acts 2 v 34 ?______
Where was Jesus telling the Jews [ Jewish people ] that the kingdom was within them ?_______
Wasn't Jesus addressing his enemy Pharisees at Luke 17 vs 20,21 ?______
Surely the kingdom was Not within those hate-filled Pharisees was it ?
However, Jesus, as king designate, was within their reach, within their midst Jesus being among them.
It is Not until verse 22 that Jesus addresses his disciples.
When did Jesus say to his disciples that the kingdom would appear at Luke 19 vs 11-15 ?
No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above. No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and spirit.
Flesh makes flesh spirit makes spirit. Do not be amazed I tell you, you must all be born from above.
The One who comes from above is above all. He testifies to what He has seen and heard but no one believes him ,if anyone does believe they render the truth of God.
How could it be in David's reign when King David is still asleep in the grave according to Acts 2 v 34 ?______
Where was Jesus telling the Jews [ Jewish people ] that the kingdom was within them ?_______
Wasn't Jesus addressing his enemy Pharisees at Luke 17 vs 20,21 ?______
Surely the kingdom was Not within those hate-filled Pharisees was it ?
However, Jesus, as king designate, was within their reach, within their midst Jesus being among them.
It is Not until verse 22 that Jesus addresses his disciples.
When did Jesus say to his disciples that the kingdom would appear at Luke 19 vs 11-15 ?
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Whether you like it or not that is where Jesus said it. No need to try and explain it away. It say's what it say's.
David's reign or the throne of David is a title and not a persons name.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Whether you like it or not that is where Jesus said it. No need to try and explain it away. It say's what it say's.
David's reign or the throne of David is a title and not a persons name.
That is a bad translation. It is for those who try to explain away the dosens of verses that say the kingdom of God or kingdom of heaven is a place one can enter as Jesus has said.
The verse says the kingdom of Heaven is among you.
The kingdom of heaven is at hand;
Try to enter by the narrow gate for the the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction and many choose to take it but the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life and few there are that find it.
The one who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.
Not everyone who cries Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only those that do the will of my heavenly Father.
If you righteousness does not exceed the scribes and Pharisees you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Truly I tell you, how hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Truly I tell you unless you change and become like little children you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.
But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.
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